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※ 本文為 win95se.bbs. 轉寄自 ptt.cc 更新時間: 2013-10-13 14:00:52
看板 NBA
作者 idiotsmart (一根毛兒)
標題 [外絮] 分數剩餘-了解NBA最佳得分手的新方法
時間 Fri Oct 11 23:58:49 2013


           Extra Points - A new way to understand the NBA's best scorers

                     分數剩餘-了解NBA最佳得分手的新方法

     LeBron James is the best player in the world. That may be obvious to
     anyone who has watched basketball over the past few years, but for some
     reason it's hard to find many statistics to support this claim. Back
     when Michael Jordan ruled the NBA, he would commonly lead the league in
     points per game; Chamberlain and Russell put up insane rebounding
     numbers; Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the league's all-time leading scorer.

     LeBron James是現役地表最強球員。對任何近年有在看籃球的人來說這是理所當
     然的事,但奇怪的是很難找到很多數據來支持這項論點。在過去Michael Jordan
     統治NBA時,他一直都是聯盟得分王;Chamberlain和Russell往往抓下誇張的籃板
     數;Kareem Abdul-Jabbar是聯盟史上累積得分紀錄保持者。


     James recently joined those giants as one of the five NBA players to win
     four MVP awards. Despite that impressive feat, his dominance is not
     reflected in conventional basketball stats. Somehow a vast majority of
     the game's most oft-cited statistics obscure the greatness of the game's
     greatest player. James shines in terms of Win Shares and PER, but those
     stats only vaguely describe what makes him so good. They fail to
     highlight any particular element of James's performance. In fact, many
     of our most common metrics imply that other players are more effective
     or more efficient than James.

     James最近成為聯盟第五位獲得第四座MVP的球員,使自己成為和這些神獸平起平坐
     。除了這項傲人的事蹟,他的統治力並沒有反應在傳統數據上。不知為何,絕大多
     數最常被引用的數據掩飾了當今球場最優秀的球員的統治力。James在WinShares和
     PER(譯按:WS為球員為球隊的貢獻值;PER為球員的效率值)的表現相當耀眼,但
     這些數據只有模糊的解釋James厲害之處。它們無法標明任何James表現內容的明確
     要素。事實上,相當多常見的衡量標準顯示其他球員比James來的更有效率及更有
     影響力。


     Last season, DeAndre Jordan led the NBA in field goal percentage.
     However, consider the following ridiculous statistical couplet:

     上一季,DeAndre Jordan在投籃命中率上領先全聯盟。然而,思考一下下面兩個誇
     張的數據。

     No player scored more points close to the basket than LeBron James last
     season.

     上一季LeBron James的籃下得分是全聯盟最多。

     No player converted a higher percentage of his shots near the basket than
     LeBron James last year.

     上一季LeBron James的籃下命中率是聯盟最佳。

     http://ppt.cc/TdTq

     Think about that. Not only did he outscore every player in the entire
     league within the NBA's most sacred real estate, he converted his shots
     at the highest rate, too. As a whole, the NBA made 56 percent of its
     shots in that area last season; James made a staggering 72 percent of his
     637 attempts there. Despite this unreal scoring prowess, James trails
     inferior interior scorers in field goal percentage.

     動腦想想吧。他不但在NBA最神聖的禁區得到比聯盟中的任何球員更多的分數,而
     且還保有聯盟最高的命中率。整體而言,聯盟上一季的籃下命中率是56%;在James
     637次的籃下出手中,他的命中率是驚人的72%。儘管有這電動般的得分本領,James
     的命中率比較差的禁區球員還更低。


     Few people would argue that Jordan is a more efficient scorer than James,
     but according to field goal percentage, that's exactly what he is. Jordan
     led the NBA in that category, shooting 64 percent, while James managed
     only 57 percent.1 Although it can be useful to know which players convert
     field goal attempts at the highest and lowest rates, that doesn't really
     tell us much about scoring effectiveness.

     很少有人去主張Jordan(譯按:指的是快艇隊DJ,不是MJ)是個比James更有效率
     的得分手,但從命中率籃看這卻是事實。Jordan的64%命中率領先全聯盟,而James
     只有57%。雖然了解球員們的命中率是高是低是有用的,但這無法告訴我們真正的
     得分效率。


     Some players, like Steve Novak, shoot lots of 3s; others, like Kevin
     Garnett, rely on 18-footers; DeAndre Jordan works almost exclusively in
     the paint. Players like Jordan almost always lead the league in field
     goal percentage. The problem is that while NBA players have different
     roles and different shooting habitats, almost all of our shooting
     evaluations ignore that.

     有些像Steve Novak的球員,投一堆三分球;又其他的像Kevin Garnett主打18呎中
     距離跳投;DeAndre Jordan則主要在禁區裡討生活。像Jordan這類球員幾乎都是聯
     盟的命中率領先者。問題在於當每位的NBA球員的角色且投籃習慣不同時, 我們的
     投籃數據大多都忽略它。


     http://ppt.cc/TKj2

     Anybody who has ever played H-O-R-S-E can tell you that some shots are
     easier than others; a layup is easier than a free throw, which is easier
     than a corner 3. This basic tenet is almost entirely overlooked by our
     most popular shooting metrics. Similarly, NBA players are all special,
     and over the course of a season each player generates his own unique
     "constellation" of shot locations. This is also overlooked; the graphic
     above demonstrates that the LeBron James constellation is considerably
     different from the DeAndre Jordan constellation.

     有玩過H-O-R-S-E的人都會告訴你有些投籃當然比其他的容易。上籃比罰球容易,
     而罰球比角落三分簡單。這個基本原則幾乎完全被我們最依賴的投籃數據給忽略。
     同樣的,NBA球員們都是特殊的,而整個球季下來每位球員都有他的「特有投籃區
     域」。這點當然也被忽略了。上面的圖表顯示出LeBron的投籃區域和DeAndre

     Jordan的投籃區域有著巨大的差異。

     We can improve our shooting metrics by accounting for court space and the
     unique natures of players' shot constellations.

     我們可以藉由展示球場不同區塊和每位球員的獨特投籃區域,將投籃數據再進化。

     At the end of the season, James's average shot distance was 11 feet;

     Jordan's was 2.8 feet. Essentially, through the hazy lens of FG
     percentage, James is penalized for having a jump shot, while Jordan is
     rewarded for not having one. Despite being a very good 3-point shooter,
     a good midrange shooter, and the most dominant interior scorer in the
     game, James trailed players like DeAndre Jordan and JaVale McGee in a
     crucial scoring metric.

     上一季結束,James的平均投籃距離是11呎;Jordan的則是2.8呎。基本上,透過投
     籃命中率這不清不楚的數據,James因跳投而不利,反之,Jordan因沒有投任何跳
     投而得利。儘管他是個優質三分射手、好的中距離射手和球場上最優秀的禁區得分
     手,James在這個重要的命中率數據上輸給DeAndre Jordan和JaVale McGee。


     What the hell?

     搞屁阿!

     While it's tempting to claim that our stats are "advanced" now, think
     about these two basic questions:
       1. Who is the best shooter in the NBA?
       2. What metrics would you use to justify your answer to this question?

     雖然稱呼我們的數據為「進階數據」是件誘人的事,先想想這兩個基本問題:
       1. 誰是NBA現役最強得分手?
       2. 你用什麼去來證明你的答案是對的?

     When it comes to shooting stats, one would think there would be a
     spreadsheet somewhere on the Internet that delineates "great shooters"
     like Stephen Curry and Kevin Durant near its top, and "bad shooters"
     like Monta Ellis and Josh Smith at the bottom. But there's not. We still
     rely on hunches and vague reputations to make our assertions about "pure
     shooting" skill in the NBA. Amid the chatter of an ongoing revolution in
     basketball statistics, the notion that we still can't effectively measure
     shooting ability is troubling — but it's also correctable.

     當提及投籃數據時,人人都可能想有某個網路上找到的表格描述著「優質射手」像
     Stephen Curry和Kevin Durant和「劣質射手」像Monta Ellis和Josh Smith。但沒
     有這東西。我們依然依靠著直覺和曖昧不清的名聲來主張NBA中「純粹的投籃」技
     巧。在籃球數據進化的爭論中,我們依然無法有效的衡量投籃能力這個概念,進而
     造成許多困難。但這也是可以修正的。


     The issue is, almost every NBA player's overall FG percentage will always
     have more to do with where he shoots than how well he shoots.

     問題在於幾乎所有NBA球員的投籃命中率和投籃位置的關聯強於投得多好。

     The inconvenient truth is that every NBA field goal attempt has its own
     level of difficulty that's determined by several factors, including the
     shooter's location on the court. Even though previous approaches have
     mostly ignored this thorny reality, thanks to relatively new forms of
     NBA data we can now begin to understand it.

     不願面對的真相是每個NBA的投籃出手有著屬於其的難度,其受射手的位置等幾個
     因素影響。即使前面幾個方法都忽略這個麻煩的事實,由於相對來說更新的NBA數
     據,我們現在可以開始去理解它。


     Last year, NBA players took just about 200,000 shots. The league's
     collective shot chart reveals the spatial nature of the NBA's average
     shooting efficiency. By itself, the chart shows the stark relationship
     between court space and expected points per shot — that's why 3-point
     shots are rapidly increasing in popularity while midrange shots are
     diminishing.

     去年,NBA球員大約投了200,000球。整合的聯盟出手圖表顯示出NBA平均投籃效率
     的空間因素。根據圖表顯示球場位置和每次出手的期望分數的顯著關係。這也是
     為什麼投三分球快速流行而中距離投籃慢慢消失。


     http://ppt.cc/O8ms

     But this chart also provides a useful baseline that we can use to
     evaluate individual shooting performances. By overlaying players' shot
     constellations, we can estimate the expected total number of points that
     an average NBA shooter would produce, based on where he took his shots;
     then we can compare a particular player's actual yield against it.

     但這個圖表也提供我們一個可以用來衡量個人投籃表現的有用基準。將球員的投籃
     區域圖覆蓋於其上,我們可以基於他的投籃位置來估計一位平均的NBA射手所能得
     到的分數。然後我們可以比較這位球員的真實得分。


     For example, last season LeBron James attempted 1,354 shots. Using that
     league-wide baseline as our guide, if an average NBA shooter attempted
     this exact same set of 1,354 shots, he would produce a yield of 1,397
     total points.

     舉例而言,上一季LeBron James出手1,354球。以聯盟基準來看,假如是一位NBA平
     均的球員出手這1,354球,他總共會得到1,397分。

     http://ppt.cc/PatG

     James actually yielded 1,628 points from that constellation, 231 more
     than expected. No player accumulated more points than expected than
     James. By accounting for the fundamental relationship between court
     space and NBA shooting averages, we can see which players scored the
     most and least points above expected levels in the NBA. And we can
     figure out which players are actually the most effective scorers in
     their native shooting habitats.

     James在那些投籃位置實際上得到了1,628分,比期望值要再多231分。沒有球員的
     期望值以上累積得分比James多。藉由說明球場位置和NBA投籃平均值的重要關係,
     我們可以看到哪些球員得分和NBA平均得分差值的最高跟最低。也可以依球員的投
     籃習慣來搞清楚哪位球員是真正的最有效率得分手。


     Along with Ashton Shortridge, a professor at Michigan State, I did this
     analysis for every player who took at least one shot during the 2012-13
     regular season. We refer to the difference between a player's actual
     point yield and his expected yield as ShotScore. For good shooters this
     number is positive; for bad shooters it is negative.

     和一位Michigan州大的教授Ashton Shortridge一起,我作了至少投了一球的每位
     球員在2012-13的投籃分析。我們將球員實際得分和期望得分的差距值稱為ShotScore
     。好的得分手的數字會是正值,反之差的得分手是負值。

     James came out on top, and is joined in the top three by a pair of elite
     shooters.Highest ShotScores in the league:

     James最優,和另外兩位優質射手成為排行榜前三位。聯盟最佳ShotScore:

       1. LeBron James, +231
       2. Kevin Durant, +204
       3. Stephen Curry, +164

     These are three very different players with unique scoring strengths.
     Each accrues point surpluses in different spaces. Unsurprisingly, most
     of James's gigantic surplus comes close to the basket, where he puts up
     those freakish numbers.

     這三位不同的球員有著獨特的得分特長。每位都能在不同區位產生分數剩餘。不意
     外的,多數James的大量剩餘來自於他產生變態數據的籃下,

     http://ppt.cc/XGdW

     Kevin Durant is also quite good near the basket, but he's more active
     and even more deadly from the outside than James. In a normal era, Durant
     would likely be the most effective scorer in the league, but we're not in
     a normal era — we're in the LeBron era. Still, Durant is an elite
     shooter from virtually every spot on the floor.

     Kevin Durant的籃下得分也相當不錯,但他和James比起來,外圍攻擊更多且更致
     命。在正常的時代,Durant很有可能是聯盟最有效率得分手,但我們現在不是在正
     常時代,而是在LeBron的時代。仍然,Durant差不多在球場上每個位置都是優質射
     手。


     http://ppt.cc/TpSu

     He is so good that the weaknesses on his shot chart are the spots where
     he's only slightly above NBA average. That's crazy. Curry is a better
     perimeter shooter than both James and Durant, but he can't match their
     abilities near the basket, where he's actually a below-average NBA
     scorer. Still, thanks to his insane jump shot, Curry accumulates points
     at unusually effective rates.

     他(Durant)實在好到他在投籃表的較弱的位置依然些微領先聯盟平均。瘋狂吧!
     Curry和James和Durant相比是位更優秀的外圍射手,但他不能和他們兩位的籃下能
     力相提並論,而在籃下他甚至是個低於NBA平均水準的得分手。仍然,由於他的瘋狂
     外線跳投能力,Curry以異常的效率累積分數。


     http://ppt.cc/RBUz

     Calculating ShotScore for outside shots only (eliminating the inside
     shots) reveals the great "pure shooters" in the NBA. It should come as
     no surprise that Curry comes out on top. Last season, the Warriors guard
     took 1,120 shots outside of 7.5 feet; these shots resulted in 1,247
     points, or 195 more points than expected. League-wide, in terms of
     ShotScore for outside shots, Curry leads a top five that also includes
     Kevin Durant, Jose Calderon, Kyle Korver, and Dirk Nowitzki.

     只計算外線投射的ShotScore(扣除內線出手)顯示出NBA的優秀「純射手」。不
     意外的,Curry是第一名。上一季,這位勇士後衛投了1,120球7.5呎外投射。而這
     些出手產生1,247分,或說比期望得分多195分。聯盟中的外線ShotScore,最佳五
     位為Curry、Kevin Durant、Jose Calderon、Kyle Kover和Dirk Nowizki。


     These are players who already enjoy great reputations as shooters, but to
     this point there hasn't been a metric that has certified their superior
     status.

     這些球員已經是以射手著名,但至今還未有數據證明他們高人一等的地位。

     Controlling for the number of total shots taken helps further refine the
     idea. Jose Calderon had the highest ShotScore per outside shot. Calderon
     led the league with a +25 ShotScore per 100 outside shots, indicating
     that he accumulates 25 percent more points than would an average NBA
     shooter for every 100 outside shots he takes. This is especially
     impressive considering Calderon was playing for a pair of middling teams
     last season.

     當控制住投籃總數時更進一步的提升這個概念。Jose Calderon有最高的每一球外
     線出手的ShotScore。Calderon有優於全聯盟的每100外線出手+25的ShotScore,
     表他比起一般NBA得分手每100球外線出手的累積分數多25%。考慮到Calderon上季
     在兩個普通球隊打球的話,這更是令人敬佩。


     As it turns out, of the 162 NBA players who attempted at least 300
     outside shots last season, only three of them accrued more than 20 points
     above expected values per 100 shots: Calderon, Kyle Korver, and Steve
     Nash, who despite his broken-down body still managed to put together
     great shooting numbers. Interestingly, many of the names on the list
     below are not frequent shot creators, but when they do get shots they
     are extremely accurate relative to their peers.

     數據的結果為上季162位至少出手300球外線的NBA球員中,只有3位每一百次出手產
     出高於期望值20分:Calderon、Kyle Kover和儘管身體受傷依然完成優質投籃數據
     的Steve Nash。有趣的是,多數下面列出的名字不是大量出手的人,但當他們有機
     會投籃時,和其他球員相比他們是致命的準。


     Top 10 Outside Shooters Per 100 Shot Attempts
     每一百次外線出手最佳10位射手

       1. Jose Calderon, +25
       2. Kyle Korver, +23
       3. Steve Nash, +21
       4. Stephen Curry, +17
       5. Dirk Nowitzki, +16
       6. Serge Ibaka, +16
       7. Jarrett Jack, +16
       8. Shane Battier, +15
       9. Danny Green, +15
       10. Steve Novak, +14

     So does this mean that Jose Calderon is the best shooter in the NBA? No,
     it means that when Calderon shoots it's a beautiful thing. We all know
     that the NBA isn't just a catch-and-shoot league; it's also very much a
     create-your-own shot league. Some NBA players, like Novak, only thrive
     in those catch-and-shoot scenarios, while others, like Stephen Curry,
     Dirk Nowitzki, and Kevin Durant, constantly create their own chances off
     the dribble or in the post. These differences are reflected partly in
     the volume of shots guys take every year, and relative to players like
     Curry, Nowitzki, and Durant, Calderon is not a very creative shooter.

     這代表Jose Calderon是NBA最佳得分手嗎?不,這代表當Calderon投籃時是件好的
     事。我們知道NBA並非只是個接球後立即投籃的聯盟,它也是個製造自己投籃機會
     的聯盟。一些像Novak的NBA球員,只有在接球後立即投籃的情況下有殺傷力,而其
     他像是Stephen Curry、Dirk Nowitzki和Kevin Durant等則時常在運球後或低位創
     造自己的投籃機會。這些差距部分反映在球員每年出手的量,而和Curry、Nowitzki
     和Durant等球員相比,Caldreon並不是個有創造投籃能力的得分手。


     I find it interesting that Jeff Van Gundy likes to refer to Novak as the
     "best pure shooter" in the NBA. The numbers don't back up that claim.
     Suggesting that a player like Novak is a better shooter than Curry,
     Durant, or Nowitzki is just as foolish as saying that DeAndre Jordan is
     a more efficient scorer than LeBron James.

     我發覺Jeff Van Gundy喜歡談說Novak是聯盟中「最佳純射手」這件事很有趣。數
     據並沒有支持這個說法。說Novak是比Curry、Durant或Nowitzki更好的射手和說
     DeAndre Jordan是比LeBron James更有效率的得分手一樣愚昧。


     How efficient would Curry or Durant be if they just camped out on the
     perimeter and took catch-and-shoot jumpers a few times per night?
     Unfortunately for their efficiency numbers, these guys also toil inside
     the arc and take tons of shots off the dribble. Conversely, how bad
     would Steve Novak be if he tried to do this at the end of a playoff game?

     如果Curry和Durant只是駐守外圍並每晚只接球後立即跳投幾次的話,他們會多麼
     有效率呢?對於他們的效率數據不利的是,他們也要在三分線內拼命並投一堆運球
     後的投籃。相反的,如果Steve Novak試著要在季後賽比賽末端時作他們做的事,
     他又會多糟呢?


     NBA shooting prowess involves much more than just spotting up.

     NBA得分能力並不只有定點跳投。

     We have to consider more than just field goals made versus field goals
     missed. The ShotScore approach begins that process by introducing the
     fundamental role of court space into the equation, but it by no means
     ends it. I am not suggesting that this is the most important new
     statistic in the NBA, but I do believe it clarifies which players
     regularly make or miss baskets at higher rates in their native scoring
     zones. Emerging data sets will enable this process further. For example,
     the SportVU data set allows us to additionally consider the openness
     of a particular shot attempt; after all, a wide-open 15-foot jump shot
     is a lot easier than that identical shot with Larry Sanders lunging at
     you.

     我們考慮的不單只是投進的球和投不進的球的相對問題。ShotScore的途徑藉由把
     球場位置的重要角色代入計算式中,開啟這個新方法,但這絕對不是終點。我並不
     是在暗示這個是最重要的NBA新數據,但我的確相信這個能證明哪位球員固定的在
     他們的習慣投籃區域中有較高的投進或投失率。更多的資料將使這個方法更進化。
     舉例來說,SportVU的資料庫讓我們可以進一步考慮每個出手的空檔程度。畢竟一
     個空檔15呎跳投和被Larry Sanders撲過來的相同投籃比起來可簡單多了。


     One of the hallmarks of good NBA teams like the Heat and the Spurs is
     their ability to regularly create wide-open looks; many great shooters
     in the league aren't fortunate enough to play in such a scheme, and
     their numbers suffer as a result. For instance, there's no question that
     Danny Green has made great strides as a spot-up shooter, and his
     performance in the 2013 NBA Finals was incredible. But how much of his
     emergence is due to that beautiful Popovichian orchestra down in San
     Antonio? He wasn't getting those looks back in Cleveland when he was
     released.

     像熱火隊和馬刺隊這種NBA好球隊的正字標記之一就是經常的製造空檔的能力。很
     多優質射手沒有運氣好到在這些戰術下打球,他們的數據因此受到傷害。舉例來
     說,Danny Green毫無疑問的進步神速成為優質定點射手,而他在2013 NBA總冠軍
     賽的表現相當驚人。但他的突出表現有多少是因為Popovich在聖安東尼奧指揮這
     優美交響樂隊呢?他過去在Cleveland被釋出時可沒有這些空檔。


     This is an exciting time for basketball analytics, but as is often the
     case, deep explorations into performance often provoke more questions
     than answers. It's still tempting to assert that NBA analytics are
     advanced now, but the truth is that we will look back at the current
     state of affairs the same way baseball nerds look back at the batting
     average and RBI era. These players give us so much; the least we can do
     in return is come up with an accurate way of appreciating them.

     這對籃球數據來說是個興奮的時刻,但很多時候,對於球員表現探索越多,引發的
     問題會多過答案。仍然會忍不住想宣稱NBA的數據更進一步了,但事實上我們將會
     回首看看現況,如同棒球數據呆回首看打擊率和RBI的時代。這些球員給了我們很
     多,我們至少要回報予更精準的方法來欣賞他們。



原文網址-
http://tinyurl.com/qf3ett4



心得:

      相當優質的數據文
      前文撲梗的道理其實大家都懂-命中率的謬誤
      作者提供一個相當棒的方法來更接近真實的比較

      裡面最讓人覺得奇妙的就是Curry
      最讓人期待也是他
      能想像他將三分線內的出手選擇和命中率再提升的話
      那會是多可怕的事!!!!

      不意外的榜上有名的都是知名射手
      上季38的Nash還能維持這種手感真令人佩服

      必須要再強調說這篇文真的很優質
      因為作者很強調出手方式不同會導致這數據被錯用
      即使可以引用這數據不同進攻模式的球員還是不能一起比較
      而不同戰術體系的影響亦很重要
      但我想這個問題很難用數據解決

      除了作者提到的「被防守干擾」與否外
      我自己認為這個數據如果能在配上「受助攻」與否來看的話
      將會更提升!!!!
      身為愛鑽研數據的一份子這真的讓人興奮啊

      下集預告:以ShotScore分析NBA最差得分手


      (歡迎轉載,但轉至站外請標明原作者和出處,感謝)


--
新手NBA外電翻譯+數據分析部落格

http://mola79321.pixnet.net/blog

歡迎來討論!!!

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◆ From: 124.218.28.55
erotica     :沒列出Laoda多少  失敗......1F 10/12 00:08
liugayo     :這篇真長呀2F 10/12 00:10
ping1777    :這底色快讓人看不清了3F 10/12 00:11
jyekid      :這篇是神作了 籃球實在太難量化了4F 10/12 00:12
lordlpg     :有看有推5F 10/12 00:12
jyekid      :NBA最差得分手→盲砲但教練又肯放他在場上會是____6F 10/12 00:13
joker6      :有看有推7F 10/12 00:13
AubreyFish  :推好文8F 10/12 00:15
jyekid      :如果未來攝影機技術能進步 配合超級電腦 計算出投籃9F 10/12 00:15
jyekid      :時困難係數 才有更真實的命中率
idiotsmart  :命中率、防守、助攻 是目前最難正確量化的 不過命中11F 10/12 00:17
idiotsmart  :率應該是最好解決的
sxing6326   :優美的姿勢才是最重要的 NBA賣的是這個13F 10/12 00:18
jyekid      :但本篇把自走射手跟定位射手的命中率認為是不同的14F 10/12 00:18
stocktonty  :意思就是能裡能外又能自己創造投籃機會的 才是真強者15F 10/12 00:20
LaLaYeh     :優質推16F 10/12 00:20
hihi29      :推好文17F 10/12 00:21
inzoo10     :推好文18F 10/12 00:21
blur13      :推19F 10/12 00:22
idiotsmart  :所以受助攻與否應該就能區分自走和非自走差別了20F 10/12 00:23
ILLwill     :優質好文21F 10/12 00:23
PiGFAcE     :push22F 10/12 00:25
hssz        :進攻最強的境界,就是能製造最高的團隊命中率23F 10/12 00:27
coldbreeze  :推好文24F 10/12 00:28
grosschemman:很驚訝沒有雷槍25F 10/12 00:33
nypgand1    :剛剛也看了這篇差點就要翻了 好險最後收住XD26F 10/12 00:38
idiotsmart  :哈哈 這篇文超長 翻起來滿累的~27F 10/12 00:39
nypgand1    :還有最新的一篇在討論 shotscore 表現糟糕的球員28F 10/12 00:40
idiotsmart  :哈 那就是我的下集預告XD29F 10/12 00:40
nypgand1    :辛苦辛苦XD30F 10/12 00:40
aLLpLaNed   :怎麼沒有KOBE31F 10/12 00:41
idiotsmart  :那篇明天弄好就要放上來了~~~ 上下集的概念哈哈32F 10/12 00:41
w61036      :仙哥必推!33F 10/12 00:42
aLLpLaNed   :雷槍上一季季賽滿常烙賽的 畢竟轉替補上場不穩定34F 10/12 00:42
opsddb      :閱畢。大推!35F 10/12 00:42
opsddb      :期待下集...最差得分手XDD
YummyParker :仙哥我愛你37F 10/12 00:44
twsoriano   :八婆維奇:射手想揚名立萬就來馬刺玩一玩吧~~~38F 10/12 00:44
opsddb      :Dirk也很驚人,他上季也是有傷,狀態非100%,年紀也39F 10/12 00:56
opsddb      :大了,又是常自己來的球隊第一得分點
apestage    :這篇超讚!!41F 10/12 00:57
luxurykabiso:好文推!42F 10/12 01:01
shadow0326  :推43F 10/12 01:04
thisday     :6. Serge Ibaka44F 10/12 01:12
j401f2      :翻的很爛 文意錯誤百出 改一改吧45F 10/12 01:14

想請問文意理解上的錯誤在哪,麻煩你指正了
畢竟錯誤百出讓我有點訝異

你的耐心指正是我進步的最大動力

rkbey       :好文,比ESPN的專家排名有意義多了46F 10/12 01:15
EvanYang    :47F 10/12 01:21
Mman        :LBJ跟KD是因為比較高大啊 CURRY通常有七八個人比他高48F 10/12 01:22
kart        :好文推,樓上噓的噓免錢,翻譯文你要就回文指正錯誤49F 10/12 01:24
kart        :要就將就點看,翻譯文章服務大眾只要不是刻意亂翻有
kart        :啥好噓的 = =
kart        :另外就是因為球員出手位置和習慣不同,用shotscore看
kart        :才有道理啊,所以Curry矮小外線出手多但是score不低
rettttt5    :推好文,不過我不認為傳統意義的數據不能顯示出LBJ54F 10/12 01:26
rettttt5    :的偉大,場均26.8分 8板 7.3助攻 1.7抄截 FG%56.5
rettttt5    :而且重點是他已經連續九年維持類似的數據了
bbbruce     :沒看到Laoda....好失望57F 10/12 01:30
KasCT       :優文推58F 10/12 01:32
blake1003   :推59F 10/12 01:37
KeyFSN      :有文意錯誤百出嗎...我覺得翻的很棒了60F 10/12 01:38
KeyFSN      :難道要像google一樣逐字翻才叫做好翻譯嗎?
ab304044    :亂噓…62F 10/12 01:42
kaede0711   :KD沒碰到喇叭,應該已經MVP了63F 10/12 02:08
JHCh        :推,優質好文!64F 10/12 02:14
ioms        :推 不錯的數據文 另外覺得有幾處應該可以在通順點65F 10/12 02:24
ioms        :"當不同的NBA球員的角色不同且..." 不同NBA球員 就好
ioms        :一句話用多個"的"在中文總會有點累贅
Magicwind   :好文 另外譴責亂噓的人68F 10/12 02:28
ioms        :"多數我們的投籃數據都忽略它" 多數放前面好像不順69F 10/12 02:28
ioms        :這句原文意思應該也可以用 幾乎 大多 或是放中間連接
ioms        :"他實在好到...居然只比聯盟平均稍高" 這整句應該也
ioms        :通常用居然只比的語調會像是還不夠好 就像比排名都會
ioms        :這樣講"居然只贏最後一名" 而不會講"只贏第二名"
ioms        :一些淺見

謝謝ioms大耐心給建議
另位關於他實在...那句其實我想過很多,也對照Curry數據看
我認為他的意思是
「Curry三分太誇張了,所以他其他弱項其實不慎突出,居然只超過聯盟平均一點
,就有第三名的ShotScore」
不只到理解有沒有問題
我也覺得我那句翻很爛XDDDD

cloud72426  :沒有老大 整篇廢文75F 10/12 02:42
opsddb      :樓上講的那句應是"他太好了,以至於他的弱點竟然是那76F 10/12 02:44
opsddb      :些只比聯盟平均稍高的位置"
opsddb      :所以用"居然只比"的確怪怪的
ioms        :上面那句 他投籃最弱的位置居然仍些微高於聯盟平均79F 10/12 02:46
opsddb      :若改成"居然仍比"意思就相近了80F 10/12 02:46
ioms        :這樣翻雖然不是完全照原文翻但應該是保有原文意思81F 10/12 02:48
ioms        :不過還是要再推辛苦翻譯 尤其是長篇文章
charlie1kimo:這篇好威...好文83F 10/12 02:52
pf775101    :cloud72426,這種水準的文章還能用這樣的亂噓,佩服84F 10/12 03:22
lucifer19   :推這篇!!  整個貼近真實狀況很多  優文!!85F 10/12 03:22
pf775101    :或許ShotScore是能證明球員得分能耐的開端86F 10/12 03:30
pf775101    :不然籃球要量化數據實在太難了。
illidan23   :推88F 10/12 03:49
SonAkali    :Argue那邊用爭論不太對的感覺 用主張較為貼切89F 10/12 04:06
chkx        :推90F 10/12 04:08
shihchinlun :其實看完這篇另外一篇根本不用看,大概看一下圖和數字91F 10/12 04:10
shihchinlun :就完全知道他在講啥了,我好想看老大的數據
shihchinlun :哪裡可以找的到嗎
shihchinlun :還有Lin的  意外的發現咖里在左側比右側準多了
shihchinlun :然後喇叭詹的左側底角三分也超準的 酷斃了
omyh        :這種分析就只是顯現作者想看的東西 多如過江之鯽96F 10/12 04:26
Wb2029T     :推阿97F 10/12 04:29
kart        :那抓幾隻鯽來瞧瞧...98F 10/12 05:10
jyekid      :樓上.....XDDDD99F 10/12 05:25
klao        :優質好文 推!100F 10/12 06:27
chenn       :辛苦翻譯推  大體上翻得很用心而且很不錯101F 10/12 06:32
chenn       :我覺得Curry那段你應該是理解有錯
chenn       :因為你後面解釋那段時給我有這樣的感覺
chenn       :He is so good that the weaknesses......
chenn       :He 應該是承接上段在描述的的Durant

果然也有人覺得是承接Durant,我當初看也是這樣覺得!!!
可是這樣擺段落真的很怪XDDDD

a246811     :推106F 10/12 06:36
liao18      :謝謝分享107F 10/12 06:37
chenn       :所以應該是說 Durant強到連他較弱的區域都還些微領先108F 10/12 06:38
chenn       :其他球員在該區域的平均值  這真是太瘋狂了
chenn       :然後作者才接著開始談論Curry
chenn       :這邊你可以修正一下
xpu         :這篇太棒了 提論點之餘也解釋了以前評量的缺失112F 10/12 07:22
jyekid      :這篇好在有提出例子輔以數據說明113F 10/12 07:28
hump        :114F 10/12 08:11
WordMar     :優質好文!115F 10/12 08:16
※ 編輯: idiotsmart      來自: 124.218.28.55        (10/12 08:22)
c80322      :推啊116F 10/12 08:26
ooplus      :好文推!!117F 10/12 08:39
captainyi   :好文,推。翻譯辛苦了。118F 10/12 09:08
Drexler     :長文辛苦了119F 10/12 09:17
Fanicom     :推推~120F 10/12 10:02
Acer3000    :希望這篇可以讓人少發謬文。121F 10/12 10:09
MK12        :推推 好文不爆 果然是NBA版版風122F 10/12 10:52
mikeneko    :看到第一句就覺得這篇文有失偏頗123F 10/12 11:02
mikeneko    :結果底下果然自創了一堆數劇想強調LBJ有多強
kevin791112 :125F 10/12 11:38
polaristin  :推好文更推翻譯!126F 10/12 11:43
willy14     :怒推127F 10/12 11:48
likeway     :推好文128F 10/12 11:53
jason00608  :好文推129F 10/12 12:54
NicoRobin26 :130F 10/12 13:02
coldbreeze  :我以為Bosh會比Ibaka準耶 沒想到他這麼威131F 10/12 13:29
yan7137     :好文推推132F 10/12 14:39
archigize   :好文推133F 10/12 14:42
B0988698088 :太長 太廢134F 10/12 14:49
kb81        :135F 10/12 14:49
kusami      :136F 10/12 15:58
dasonumaso  :好文,推翻譯辛苦,沒想到Ibaka居然這麼準137F 10/12 16:57
magicteddy25:138F 10/12 18:22
DAVISCHANJAN:好文推139F 10/12 18:58
steven211   :好棒的文章140F 10/12 19:07
djmax       :不推不行 這社會需要更多你這種人141F 10/12 19:13
w61036      :路過再推社會棟樑仙哥142F 10/12 20:13
whoolan     :推喔  我很想知道老大在哪裡143F 10/12 22:25
paul51134   :推144F 10/12 22:56
nathan2000  :神文,一字一句拜讀完了。145F 10/12 23:58
champion    :推146F 10/13 01:43
goodman1985 :能觀察出球員特性的分析!!!給推147F 10/13 01:45
therookie   :辛苦了 推好文148F 10/13 10:13
kkk777      :中文,英文都有看,推薦!149F 10/13 11:22
evilvens    :150F 10/13 11:38

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