看板 NBA作者 kart (=\)標題 [外絮] Phil對用了Posse這個字感到後悔時間 Wed Dec 7 11:55:34 2016
從事情發生至今只用一個奇怪的推特文回應過的Phil
(要大家去捐錢一個用了Posse這個字的相關慈善機構)
這次終於中規中矩的回應了
原文
https://goo.gl/286n8y
Knicks president Phil Jackson says he made a mistake in talking
about another team's player when he made comments about LeBron
James last month that included the word "posse" in describing the
Cavaliers star's business associates.
Phil Jackson說自己犯了個錯誤去討論他隊隊員,包含用了
posse這個字去形容Lebron的經紀人朋友們。
"That's a topic I'm not going to discuss because one, we are not
supposed to discuss other teams' players in this position that I
have here. So I violated one of the tenets of our thing," Jackson
said in an interview on the CBS Sports Network that aired Tuesday.
「我並不打算繼續在這個議題上打轉,因為我們並不應該在這個節骨眼
去討論別隊的球員。所以我之前的確犯了這個不該犯的錯。」
Phil Jackson今天在接受CBS的訪問時如是說。
"The obvious thing is, the word itself carries connotation. And I
just don't understand that, that part of it -- the word," Jackson
added. "So I guess word choice could be something I could regret.
But talking about other teams' players, that's out of the box."
「很明顯的事實就是這個字的確帶了一些不一樣的引申意在,
而我的確沒有明瞭到這一點,關於這個字的意思。所以我想
在用字遣詞上的確是一件我會後悔的事。不過基本上我認為
我更不該做的事是去談論其他隊的球員。」
James and business partner Maverick Carter slammed Jackson last
month for what they perceived was an intended slight by the 11-
time championship coach when he retold a story about James' days
with the Miami Heat in an interview with ESPN's Jackie MacMullan.
LeBron和他的商業夥伴們上個月曾經為了posse這個字和Phil
槓上。
James said on Monday that he has no interest in meeting with
Jackson while the Cavaliers are in New York to play the Knicks on
Wednesday night.
LeBron昨天說她並沒有打算在紐約和Phil見面談論此事。
Jackson also didn't feel the need to address the issue with James.
Phil同樣也不認為會面是必要的。
"No. It's water under the bridge," he said. "I don't think there
was anybody hurt or harmed in this situation. I think LeBron's
friend [Carter] obviously had an issue with it. We just let it go.
It's not enough to talk about it."
「不用,這件事就讓船過水無痕,我不認為有人實質上受到了什麼傷害。
我想LeBron的好友Carter的確是對這件事有意見。我們應該讓這事過去。
這並不足以讓我們刻意去對話。」
Jackson used the term "posse" to describe James' business
associates when discussing James' leaving the Miami Heat in free
agency.
回顧Phil用posse的訪問。
"It had to hurt when they lost LeBron," Jackson said. "That was
definitely a slap in the face. But there were a lot of little
things that came out of that. When LeBron was playing with the
Heat, they went to Cleveland, and he wanted to spend the night.
They don't do overnights. Teams just don't. So now [coach Erik]
Spoelstra has to text [Pat] Riley and say, 'What do I do in this
situation?' And Pat, who has iron-fist rules, answers: 'You are on
the plane. You are with this team.' You can't hold up the whole
team because you and your mom and your posse want to spend an
extra night in Cleveland.
"I always thought Pat had this really nice vibe with his guys. But
something happened there where it broke down. I do know LeBron
likes special treatment. He needs things his way."
Jackson was also asked during the CBS Sports Network interview
about Golden State coach Steve Kerr's use of medicinal marijuana
to recover from back surgery. He said he used marijuana during his
own recovery from back surgery.
Phil也被問到對於Steve Kerr用大麻的看法。
"The year that I was off I was smoking marijuana during that
period of time. I think it was a distraction for me as much as a
pain reliever," Jackson said. "But I never thought of it as
ultimately a pain medication for that type of situation."
「我在背傷復原的期間也是有吸大麻。不過對我而言大麻是讓我
忘憂的方式而不全然是用來止痛。基本上我從來不把大麻看成
是個止痛藥就是了。」
Jackson said marijuana was "something that we either have to
accommodate or figure out another way to deal with it."
Phil也認為聯盟要用更聰明的方式去看待大麻。
"We have tried to stop [marijuana use] in the NBA," Jackson said.
"I don't think we have been able to stop it. I think it still goes
on and is still a part of the culture in the NBA."
「聯盟曾經試過停止大麻使用,但是我認為這是很難成功的。
大麻是NBA文化的一部分。」
=============================
心得:
要老人家承認自己用錯字真的不容易,雖然說得很隱諱不過也算是
Phil在這件事情上承認犯錯了?
至於有些人還搞不清楚狀況說是LeBron他們反應過度的,
我在美國主流媒體上就這件事還沒看過半個人站在Phil這邊的,
印象中包括McHail,T-Mac, Miller, Magic, Webber
SAS甚至Skip Bayless都明白說Phil錯了,唯一幫Phil說過話的是
一個廣播節目的主持人Dan Le Batard說Phil只是用了老派的字,
應無惡意。
至於說為啥LeBron會提到非裔美人做得還不夠等等讓人覺得是否暗示
種族歧視我想的確很難跟住在台灣的人解釋清楚。
這樣說好了,平平都是運動員身邊掛的那一大票朋友群,
白人名運動員旁邊的那些人一般會叫做entourage
黑人名運動員旁邊的那些人則會被叫做posse
基本上絕對不會交叉使用,即使這兩個字並沒有所謂「種族歧視」的意味
但是entourage代表的是 friends that do things for you
而posse代表的則是friends that take things from you
也就是說即使這群人基本上屬性相同(都是掛在名人旁邊的那群人)
身為白人在用詞上就是偏向「良師益友」正向意義的entourage
黑人就變成是偏向「狐群狗黨」負面意義的posse
所以這樣算有沒有種族歧視意義呢? 即使字的本身沒有歧視意義...
更別提LeBron的四人幫朋友也算是努力出了成績,
你可以說是還不是LeBron幫的?但是如同LeBron自己說的,
他給他們的是機會,去認識最棒的企業家和經紀人,從零學起到今天的地位
他們也很努力卻被說成是posse才會感到生氣罷了。
現在Phil在明天兩隊開戰前出來緩頰,至於夠不夠力明天就知道了 ^^
--
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推 bravo: Noah: P*ssy3F 12/07 11:58
推 jtch: 我記得之前幾個住湖邊的球迷一直出來教英文4F 12/07 12:01
推 sandiato: 那黃人名運動員身邊那群人叫?6F 12/07 12:03
→ aoka: 今天早上白宮還說搶劫黃種人是言論自由耶,這算什麼9F 12/07 12:04
推 eirose: 推!!這篇對於英文的講解很恰當,就不知道鄉民懂不懂11F 12/07 12:05
推 liusim: 大麻是NBA文化的一部份~~ 戰吧~12F 12/07 12:06
推 pounil: 禪師打臉一堆說沒差護航自己的人XDDD14F 12/07 12:09
→ loserloser: 之前不是有一個說去論壇看風向 歪國人覺得沒什麼
禪師幹嘛道歉勒 沒什麼阿15F 12/07 12:09
推 zadory: 又一次證明有沒有歧視是黑人說了算17F 12/07 12:11
推 chiuan23: 18124:沒有嚴重到要這樣反彈吧19F 12/07 12:11
→ pounil: 好像還有使立康的樣子20F 12/07 12:12
推 ea712918: 拿reddit看風向不就跟拿PTT看風向一樣21F 12/07 12:14
推 owlrex: 嗯...至少Reddit人比較多?22F 12/07 12:16
噓 snow5420: 黑人自己也歧視黃種人,黑人饒舌歌手都可以在歌詞裏面歧視黃種人了,每次看到黑人出來抗議種族歧視就覺得好笑又噁心25F 12/07 12:21
→ snow5420: 不先管好自己在那邊叫別人不要歧視 真是呵呵29F 12/07 12:22
噓 racksold: 今天會鬧這麼大還不是因為LBJ是黑人 如果今天是林書豪 恐怕還有一堆球員認為說得好30F 12/07 12:22
推 tmactsai: 美國黑人團結起來真的很可怕,反觀32F 12/07 12:24
推 e90635: 大麻是美國的文化35F 12/07 12:28
→ RamonJames: 也不是很難和臺灣人解釋的問題 ...國外也一樣36F 12/07 12:28
推 kenyun: 昔有趙高指鹿為馬 今有喇叭指posse為種族歧視
這只是簡單的政治手法 故意講錯,看多少人站在我這有權的人總是能把錯的凹成對的 就像耻從錯字變對的37F 12/07 12:29
→ ming0q: 白人世界貴族道歉?40F 12/07 12:31
推 sikadear: 今天才看到白宮對歧視華人的用語表示言論自由43F 12/07 12:34
推 iamchyun: 故意講錯讓禪師道歉?腦補成這樣真不簡單45F 12/07 12:37
推 ntusimmon: 故意講錯? 我還想說別人設局哩 硬拗腦補難看47F 12/07 12:42
推 ck1158: 黃種人名運動員旁邊那群叫nerds49F 12/07 12:44
→ MK12: 禪師鬥政治想贏姆斯 想太多50F 12/07 12:46
推 Acer3000: 如果確如本文解釋posse幾乎為黑人專用那就有貶意或歧視。反之若非黑人白人分用說歧視根本不合理。51F 12/07 12:48
推 bolide77: 住湖邊的球迷 XDDDDDDD53F 12/07 12:50
推 JayFans0610: 樓上,這個論點stan Van Gundy之前就提過了54F 12/07 12:50
推 JayFans0610: 他在此前接受訪問關於這件事情時,承認自己用過posse這個詞,他也說這個詞絕對不曾對認為白人用posse56F 12/07 12:53
推 hpaor: 當初不是一堆翻譯大師…………躲哪去了60F 12/07 13:04
推 linyi520: 打臉護航的 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% XD61F 12/07 13:38
推 iverson3f: 謝謝英文教學,與朗文、牛津的解釋相比也說得通。我相信Phill沒有惡意,如果用詞造成誤會,除了澄清也是檢視大眾對文辭認知正確與否的時候,
而非人云亦云,如:「歧視」、「霸凌」此類的字了。62F 12/07 14:11
→ lwy012018: 以後不要再犯錯了,禪師,種族歧視很嚴重的。67F 12/07 14:51
推 jagr: Phil的說法就還是他不明瞭posse這個字有種族歧視的含意,所以當初他在用這個詞上他還是不認有別人指的種族歧視意味
顯然今天在黑人族群中有認為這個字posse是種族歧視但的確也有不少的美國人根本不認為這個字是帶有歧視意味的
今天這篇ESPN的報導下面一些人的評論有,如果假設當初是Doc Rivers用了這個字,LeBron還會反應這麼大嗎?I have watched basketball, listened to music andwatched movies my entire life. The people that"hang around" with actors, musicians and athlete are ROUTINELY called POSSE. Not derogatory.
Not racist.
the term posse has been used in the NBA to
discuss close friends who came with a player for68F 12/07 15:25
推 JayFans0610: 假設根本沒意義啊,Doc Rivers會不會去因為自己不成功的GM工作,而去議論別人扯開關注都很難說83F 12/07 15:33
→ jagr: couple of decades now. I believe it was players who first termed them as such. I thought it
was pretty cool then...The term itself has no
negative connotation and certainly not a racistone as the media wishes to portray.
那個假設的意思是如果今天是一個黑人用了posse這個字評論,LeBron會不會像聽到一個白人的Phil Jackson用這個字,來感覺有種族歧視,跟甚麼GM越界評論無關85F 12/07 15:34
推 JayFans0610: 你不覺得這個假設一樣沒意義嗎?
一個成就非凡、地位高的黑人,為什麼會對一個成功人士及他的商業夥伴使用posse這個詞彙形容他們?
而且還是在一個公開場合?93F 12/07 15:43
推 jagr: 那顯然上面兩個引述的評論你沒看或沒看懂
posse這個字不是每個美國人都認為有負面或種族歧視意味的97F 12/07 15:50
推 JayFans0610: 我沒看你貼的那些英文,用手機看太零碎不方便閱讀posse不是每個人都認為負面或種族歧視這點文章不是內文就有解釋了嗎?100F 12/07 15:52
推 jagr: 還好吧,其實上面英文簡單到不用十幾秒就可以看完了我知道內文有解釋,但推文有些人還是說當初那些提國外風向認為LeBron大驚小怪,或住海邊來教英文的
我尊重LeBron對這個字的觀感,但我還是認為可以補充這個字的確對部分美國人來說是沒惡意的,那些當初跳出來秉此論點的人也不是甚麼真的住海邊搞不清狀況103F 12/07 15:57
推 JayFans0610: 拿Reddit說LeBron大驚小怪,算有搞清楚狀況嗎?
先不說被引述的人是哪些觀點,拿一個網路論壇來解讀或LeBron評論本來就有問題吧?
或評論LeBron (上面錯置
你說Reddit覺得這不是這麼大問題,那為何球員紛紛出來說Phil Jackson的措詞不當?109F 12/07 16:01
推 jagr: 不用說reddit啊,光看這新聞一開始出來國外Yahoo下面上百條評論,很多都認為LeBron是個crybaby還有太敏感今天我們要選擇去尊重LeBron對個字他的感受,但同時去理解這個詞對部分美國人來說並沒惡意,這是可以並行的115F 12/07 16:07
推 JayFans0610: Yahoo上百條評論不一樣是網路上的言論嗎?
T-Mac、Durant、R.Miller、Harden、Melo等人跟Reddit或是Yahoo這類不具名的網路言論,何者更有說服力120F 12/07 16:09
推 jagr: 請問網路上的言論不就是一般美國人的言論跟看法嗎?這還有貴賤之分嗎?
快雞同鴨講了,我說了尊重LeBron對這字的感受,其他人如果也對這字覺得有那意味或不妥,那顯然大家都要學習去理解跟尊重
我上面引述強調的只是這個字是有不少美國人沒這個負面想法123F 12/07 16:11
推 ImMACACO: 很多黑人球員也是被身邊這群人搞垮的,possi對大部份狀況是蠻中肯的130F 12/07 16:14
推 JayFans0610: 那你認為PTT言論可以代表全台灣人的言論或看法嗎?132F 12/07 16:16
推 jagr: 這是無限上綱嗎?我說了不只一次這個字對部分美國人133F 12/07 16:18
→ jagr: 沒負面含意,然後說尊重LeBron或其他人對這個字的感受,請問很難看得懂或理解嗎?
"部分美國人"這次我上面反覆用過了,我沒天真到說網路上的言論代表全部?請看清楚再來對話
不然雞同鴨講真的沒意思135F 12/07 16:18
推 JayFans0610: 你要說不是每個人都認為posse帶有貶意,所以當初有些人拿Reddit或是Yahoo評論來評論LeBron大驚小怪很合理不是?
我就是反駁這點阿,拿Reddit對posse一詞的理解來評論LeBron的反應過大,這哪裡合理了?140F 12/07 16:21
推 jagr: Reddit沒偉大到去定義posse一詞,而是網路上很多美國人依據己身對posse的理解,都不認為有貶意145F 12/07 16:26
推 JayFans0610: 我也沒說Reddit定義posse,我說的是他們對posse一詞147F 12/07 16:28
推 zzyzx: reddit至少種族人種多樣 ptt??148F 12/07 16:29
推 jagr: 今天Phil Jackson的最新言論出來,找個CBS的報導好了James Herbert那篇下面也是還有人認為LeBron太敏感Much Ado about absolutely nothing. LeBron is
getting so damn sensitive.
lebrun is a big baby
He has nothing to apologize for, and it's not a big deal. It never should have been.
good for phil. he did nothing wrong. if somebodyelse wants to twist something around to what it is not, then that is their problem.150F 12/07 16:29
→ jtch: A:原住民愛喝酒 B:你歧視 A:我用的詞哪裡歧視很中性160F 12/07 16:34
→ jagr: 就算今天Phil出來說這詞當初用的可以斟酌,但評論隨便找都是認為他一開始沒做錯甚麼161F 12/07 16:34
推 JayFans0610: 你貼這個出來不就跟上面講的一樣嗎,我還以為要說什麼特別的,結果只是把覺得沒什麼的言論PO出來..163F 12/07 16:35
推 jagr: 所以就算Phil今天出來說這話,還是有人覺得這根本沒165F 12/07 16:37
→ JayFans0610: 這麼說吧,言論本身不具有貴賤之分,但隨著社經地位166F 12/07 16:37
→ jagr: 甚麼,是當初LeBron太敏感了
有像這邊說的Phil出來打臉那些當初覺得這個字沒甚麼這樣的說法嗎?167F 12/07 16:37
→ JayFans0610: 的不同,本來用詞就要修飾,更何況是在公開場合
評論其他具有一定社經地位的人170F 12/07 16:38
推 jagr: 如果大家都能這麼斟酌用詞,社會上就少很多"所謂的"失言風波了
posse這個詞對部分美國人來說是沒貶意,用習慣你也很難說Phil Jackson一開始這樣說是有意識的去貶低172F 12/07 16:44
推 JayFans0610: 他也不是第一次用posse指稱LeBron那群朋友了176F 12/07 16:47
推 jagr: 那他不是第一次這樣指稱,代表甚麼?177F 12/07 16:48
推 JayFans0610: 第一次使用posse就帶有明顯貶意了,這次在用LeBron會認為他沒有貶意才奇怪
他曾指年輕球員身邊的posse都是幫忙停車、找妹的
你說這不帶有貶意?就當幫忙停車、找妹不算貶意好了拿這個"定義"來指稱跟LeBron一起建立起現在商業帝國Maverick Carter等人,這樣還不帶有貶意?178F 12/07 16:55
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