看板 NBA作者 usnavyseal (usmarine2008)標題 [外絮] 記者分享 2003-2004湖人內部的情況時間 Wed Jan 10 19:58:48 2024
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/1743143824782709230
The Ringer的創辦人 Bill Simmons跟旗下記者Howard 探討湖人的現狀
#1bcyInnH (NBA) 這篇的番外篇
https://vocaroo.com/12rUhXGBfrH9 16:20-19:35
節目中間談到了2003-2004 湖人內部的情況
Bill: Wait, I gotta do a quick aside with you. So were you covering the 04
Lakers?
等等,我得跟你閒聊一下,你有報導過04年的湖人?
Howard: That was my last season out there, was 03, 04, yeah.
那時我最後一季在湖人,2003-2004
Bill: So that's like a famous wheels coming off, everybody unhappy team. I
mean, maybe the unhappiest team that's ever actually made the finals, and it
had that famous, that, what was the moment when Rick Fox and a couple guys
pulled Phil Jackson into the shower?
那是一直非常混亂,大家都不開心的球隊。我想那可能是史上最不開心卻打進總冠軍的
球隊,還有那個著名的一幕,Rick Fox和幾個球員把Phil Jackson拉進淋浴間?
Howard: Into the showers of Detroit 拉進底特律的淋浴間。
Bill: To convince him to change the lineups? Just tell the story.
是為了說服他改變陣容嗎?講講那個故事。
Howard: So, yes, famously unhappy team with four future Hall of Famers on it,
right? Kobe and Shaq, plus Karl Malone and Gary Payton, who had both signed
on to ring chase in the summer of 03. They do make the finals, right?
It's funny, that team gets, I think, unfairly tarred at times. Like, guys,
they made the finals. I know they got smoked by the Pistons, and it was an
incredible, like, among the biggest shockers we've had in the finals, that
Pistons team knocking out the Lakers. But yeah, the Lakers were incredibly
unhappy. A lot of that was just the same old thing.
是的,這支知名的不開心球隊有四個未來的名人堂球員,Kobe和Shaq,Malone和Payton
則在03年夏天加入湖人,希望能拿到冠軍戒。他們也確實打進了總冠軍賽
有趣的是,我認為這支球隊有時受到了不公平的指責,我知道他們被活塞擊敗,
這是一個令人難以置信的情況,可以說是我們在總冠軍賽中見過的最大的震撼之一,
那支活塞隊淘汰了湖人隊。但其實湖人內部非常不開心,其中很多原因都是老生常談
It was Shaq and Kobe. Gary Payton wasn't happy playing the triangle, so he
and Phil Jackson were at odds. Karl Malone was hurt. Karl Malone had been,
like, the Lakers, I think, went, like, 23 and three or something out of the
gate that year. Karl Malone, who had never missed games his entire career in
Utah. I think it was Scott Williams falls into him in Phoenix. It's a freak
accident. Messes up Malone's knee.
其一是Shaq和Kobe。Payton不喜歡打三角戰術,所以跟Jackson教練不合,Malone也受傷了
湖人開季大概是23勝3敗。在爵士生涯中 Malone幾乎從未缺席比賽。我想是Scott
Williams在太陽的比賽中撞到他。那是個意外傷了Malone的膝蓋。
Bill: He's never the same. He's playing hurt or not playing the rest of the
year.
從此 Malone不再是同個人。餘下的賽季要麼帶傷打,要麼就不打。
Howard: And he was the one holding that team together, Bill. He was the one,
like, Kobe and Shaq, as much as they, and, you know, Kobe's facing his sexual
assault charges that season, too. So that's the year he's flying back and
forth to Colorado for hearings. He and Shaq are absolutely, positively done
with each other. Kobe's unloaded on Shaq, finally, through Jim Gray, with the
statement about Shaq delaying his toe surgery and his bad work habits and all
this stuff. Karl Malone was the one who could keep that team in balance.
And so when he went down with this, kind of like I say, freak accident early
in the season, and I think it was December, they're never the same. He comes
back toward the end, and then I think he aggravates the knee or something. So
the next thing you know, you've got Slava Medvedenko is guarding Rasheed
Wallace in the finals. Like, it was just, Rick Fox was older. Horace Grant
was like, they had like dusted him off.
當時 Malone是湖人隊的支柱,跟 Kobe和Shaq一樣重要,Kobe那個賽季還面臨性侵指控。
所以那年他得來回飛科羅拉多參加聽證會。 他和Shaq完全絕交了。Kobe最後透過Jim Gray
向Shaq全盤托出,指責Shaq拖延腳趾手術和他糟糕的工作習慣等等。
Malone 是能夠讓那支球隊保持平衡的人。所以當他在季初受奇怪的傷後,好像是12月吧
,湖人就再也不一樣了。他在賽季末回歸,然後我記得他有受了傷,膝蓋之類的
接下來,你看到Slava Medvedenko在總決賽中防守 Rasheed Wallace。
這實在是太瘋狂,Rick Fox年紀大了。Horace Grant好像是他們從退休中找回來的。
He was like, I think, semi-retired at that point. They just, they were old
around all the edges. Like all the role players had gotten creaky. Shaq and
Kobe wanted nothing to do with each other. Gary Payton was mad about the
triangle. And that was it. Robert Horry was gone. They had kind of sacrificed
him when they brought in Karl Malone. So it was a lot of things. And yeah,
the shower that you're talking about was, I think, I can't remember what the
lineup had been, but basically with this series and the championship on the
brink, that old core of like Fox, Derek Fisher, Horace Grant, trying to think
of who else was in that group. Maybe Brian Shaw, but they went to Phil and
basically said, I think it was maybe a shoot around, like give our original
group the chance to like save this thing.
他那時候好像已經半退休了。他們整支球隊都很老,所有的角色球員都狀況不佳
Shaq 和 Kobe不想和對方打交道。Gary Payton對三角戰術不滿。Robert Horry已經離開了
他們在引進 Malone時交易了他。所以有很多問題。而你說的淋浴間那件事,我不記得當時
的陣容是什麼,但應該是在系列賽和冠軍天王山之戰前,球隊的老核心 Fox、
Derek Fisher、Horace Grant,可能還有Brian Shaw,在投籃訓練中,一起跑去找Phil
對他說「給我們原來的團隊一個機會來拯救這件事。」
Bill: Right, let's go down with the original crew. And by the way, they went
down anyway.
對,讓我們跟著原班人馬一起去打。順便說一下,他們最終還是輸了比賽。
Howard: And they went down anyway.
他們最終還是輸了比賽。
Bill: Yeah, so I would say that was probably the unhappiest, like at least
finals level team that we've had in the last 20 years.
所以我會說那可能是過去20年來最不快樂的,但至少打進總冠軍賽的球隊
備註
Into the showers of Detroit 記者的記憶也太好XD
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※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 111.248.224.7 (臺灣)
※ 作者: usnavyseal 2024-01-10 19:58:48
※ 文章代碼(AID): #1bdePwpF (NBA)
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/NBA/M.1704887930.A.CCF.html
※ 編輯: usnavyseal (111.248.224.7 臺灣), 01/10/2024 20:00:08
推 richard1003: Malone被太陽的Scot Williams坐在膝蓋上1F 01/10 20:00
推 alex0973: 淋浴間那段是怎樣 一群裸男逼教練就範?2F 01/10 20:01
推 mhkt: XDDD
原來番外篇是回憶錄喔 蠻精彩的5F 01/10 20:02
推 eh07: 原來那個白肉柱叫Slava M匆╞€π=7F 01/10 20:02
→ alex0973: 畢拉普斯:讓他們把球餵給俠客 然後KOBE就會不開心8F 01/10 20:03
推 LBJKO: 不完全健康的老馬就是扛著湖人進冠軍賽 他G2膝蓋再9F 01/10 20:05
→ LBJKO: 次受傷 湖人就去了QQ 他大概是加盟球員中 我最不捨的一位 做了苦工也去打了自己不習慣的打法11F 01/10 20:06
推 mhkt: 我記得湖人F4問題不少 那次敗給活塞後整個爆開13F 01/10 20:07
→ LBJKO: 當年扛過 姚明 kg TD 威猛 還是老人的他14F 01/10 20:07
→ mhkt: 姚明當初低位對馬龍一直被抽椅子 吃虧15F 01/10 20:08
→ LBJKO: 當初湖人內部不合 這篇在講的 其實當初新聞有 就是老班底喊著要打真正的三角
因為手套打的不適應 助教winter有去調整三角 也增加擋差的元素 但老馬爆了 什麼都沒了…16F 01/10 20:09
→ mhkt: 手套跟馬龍 加盟也是失敗 我記得戰術好像是一個大問題20F 01/10 20:10
推 sampsonlu919: 今年剛好是OK拆夥20年 感覺不少湖人舊時的八卦會被揪出來22F 01/10 20:10
推 RicFlair: 我朋友每次來我這開電視轉NBA就開始罵湖人的一年XD24F 01/10 20:10
推 eh07: 吵著要打三角的老班底 是那些替補F4上去結果被輾過去的那些嗎....26F 01/10 20:11
→ LBJKO: 然後湖人因為板凳就老的老 傷的傷 根本無法遞補 G2還是靠奇兵菜鳥Luke發揮才贏28F 01/10 20:12
推 wwf1588: 我印象當時 老馬在上一輪G6膝蓋有復發的跡象30F 01/10 20:12
推 AbdulJabbar: 馬龍那年大概是一個球員最稱得上"犧牲"兩字的賽季了31F 01/10 20:12
推 mhkt: 當初看相關新聞 手套他就對戰術很不適應 一直反應這個問題32F 01/10 20:12
→ dashon: 沒老馬硬扛西區那群變態鋒線 湖人哪來的總冠軍打34F 01/10 20:12
→ mhkt: 然後OK彼此不信任甚至有心結35F 01/10 20:13
→ AbdulJabbar: 終生一隊沒了 高出勤率沒了(缺賽40場) 數據拉低一大36F 01/10 20:13
→ mhkt: 沒辦法 馬龍就關鍵時刻受傷 湖人就少了一個穩定攻防點37F 01/10 20:13
→ LBJKO: 在三角元素中 控衛更需要更類似有外線有防守能傳導39F 01/10 20:14
推 capsspac: 氣氛那麼差還能打到finals也是厲害40F 01/10 20:14
→ AbdulJabbar: 截(季後賽平均26.3分變24.7分) 加盟的還是總冠軍戰41F 01/10 20:14
→ LBJKO: 的人 手套無法像以前那樣 自然不適應42F 01/10 20:14
→ LBJKO: 而且老馬擋拆擋人超級紮實 當初他跟kb擋拆是一個有破壞力的招 真的對他很抱歉….生涯不能圓夢…44F 01/10 20:16
推 AbdulJabbar: Duncan前一年打湖人28分+53% 老馬賣命守到21分+47%46F 01/10 20:17
推 mhkt: 馬龍受傷 然後活塞剛好就可以全力應付KB了
班蛙去扛歐肥47F 01/10 20:17
推 puro: 當時如果奪冠 這些問題會繼續壓著嗎49F 01/10 20:18
推 LBJKO: 雙星就有心結不合 場上表現也是如此 自然不可能贏50F 01/10 20:18
→ violing613: 合不合其次 那是時代開始往高檔拆走的起點
沒馬龍就沒人能搞高檔拆打法51F 01/10 20:19
→ LBJKO: 那個團隊跟非常出色的活塞了 回頭望去 多虧0.4秒的奇蹟 但本身問題就真的很大 難以cover 老馬受傷成為最後一根稻草..53F 01/10 20:19
推 mhkt: 因為沒法去限制溪蛙的破壞力 少馬龍就是這樣56F 01/10 20:21
推 richard1003: Malone-Kobe擋拆直接打爆馬刺,Malone受傷絕對是
後面失利的關鍵58F 01/10 20:26
推 Tosca: 當時湖人已經三連霸了 第四冠本來就超級難
順帶一題很久沒有球隊三連霸了 勇士也沒阿
所以湖人是最後一個三連霸球隊60F 01/10 20:32
推 ohmypan: 身為湖迷 真的欠馬龍一個冠軍
樓上 02~03賽季三連霸被馬刺終止了63F 01/10 20:34
推 ABOQQ: 被終止三連霸才組f4喔~65F 01/10 20:45
推 ThreeNG: 馬刺、湖人三連霸、馬刺,然後才是活塞奪冠66F 01/10 20:49
推 k798976869: 有歐尼爾根本輕鬆打 只是喂給他 kobe會不爽67F 01/10 20:58
→ violing613: 低位時代那時已經結束 石佛光芒也開始低於鬼切
大歐到熱火也是還不如讓給莫寧去輔助Wade69F 01/10 21:11
→ Hohenzollern: 湖人是跨世紀三連霸 嚴格說起來二十一世紀NBA還沒有球隊三連霸
2004季後賽 郵差接連扛石佛+狼王
西區決賽結束 郵差也倒下去了71F 01/10 21:14
推 krajicek: 馬刺有被湖人打爆嗎,沒有0.4秒還不一定會贏咧75F 01/10 21:22
推 tsukasa107: 當年把kobe拿去換個奶昔 大概都能五連霸了77F 01/10 21:52
推 krajicek: 哪你怎麼不講前兩場湖人也被馬刺打爆
明明這系列就很勢均力敵,講得好像湖人壓倒性勝利01年西決那種才叫打爆好嗎78F 01/10 21:53
推 qoo60606: 好懷念的話題 還有Fox跟Fisher81F 01/10 22:24
推 alex0973: 翻XXL 裡面說馬龍是該季湖人攻守的傳動軸
馬龍的作用大到這種程度? 還請板友們補充82F 01/10 23:13
推 curo: 那年是不是還有一個場外八卦是老馬疑似調戲大嫂 @@84F 01/10 23:29
推 alex0973: 蛤 馬龍穿紅鞋?(整人專家梗)85F 01/10 23:31
推 Rentch: 不過F4當時被看好最後變看笑話也真是不勝唏噓88F 01/11 00:40
推 wildzeon: 當初組完這史上最大團以後,大家都覺得穩了,沒想到會被活塞這樣樣淘汰89F 01/11 00:51
推 uf1276: 還真的就是 馬龍那年防守很罩 那麼老還扛的住年輕TD91F 01/11 11:43
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