看板 NBA
作者 EZ78 (EZ78)
標題 [外絮] NBA:沒證據負載管理對受傷風險沒幫助或有幫助
時間 Sun Jan 14 06:51:16 2024


https://reurl.cc/L4Ng0x
NBA report - No link between load management, less injury risk - ESPN
[圖]
The NBA disseminated an analytics report to its teams and media members this week that said there is no correlation between players being load managed ...

 

作者:Tim Bontemps

The NBA disseminated an analytics report to teams and select media members
this week that said there is no correlation between players being load
managed and having a reduced risk of injury.

The report, the latest step in what has been a long debate over the concept
of load management, comes in the wake of Joe Dumars, the NBA's executive vice
president of basketball operations, saying in October that there is no
correlation between the two. Commissioner Adam Silver backed up Dumars in a
news conference last month.

本週NBA向球隊和選定的媒體成員發布了一份分析報告,該報告指出球員進行負載管理與
減少受傷風險之間沒有相關性。

這份報告是對負擔管理概念進行長時間辯論的最新一步,此前NBA的籃球運營執行副總裁
Joe Dumars於十月份表示,這兩者之間沒有相關性。NBA主席Adam Silver在上個月的記者
會上支持了Dumars的說法。


Dr. Christina Mack, epidemiologist and and chief scientific officer at IQVIA
Injury Surveillance & Analytics, which produced the report, was careful to
point out that the report does not say that load management doesn't work,
either.

"We're not saying it's better or worse," Mack said.

Christina Mack博士是IQVIA傷害監測與分析部門的流行病學家兼首席科學官,該部門製作
了這份報告。她小心翼翼地指出,報告並未表示負載管理無效。

「我們並不是說這是好還是壞,」Mack表示。

The 57-page report was sent to NBA teams earlier this week -- at the behest
of the NBA's competition committee -- to see if there was any relationship
between:

‧ frequency of game participation and injury

‧ schedule density and injury

‧ cumulative NBA participation and injury

The report concluded that there was not.

這份長達57頁的報告是在本週初應NBA競爭委員會的要求下發送給NBA球隊的,以探討以下
三者之間是否存在關係:

-參與比賽的頻率和受傷之間的關係
-賽程密度和受傷之間的關係
-累計NBA參與和受傷之間的關係

報告的結論指出這三者之間並無相關性。

"Results from these analyses do not suggest that missing games for rest or
load management -- or having longer breaks between game participation --
reduces future in-season injury risk," the report said, in bold type, in its
summary.

"In addition, injury rates were not found to be higher during or immediately
following periods of a dense schedule."

The report said that remained true even when factoring in things like player
age, minutes played and injury history.

「這些分析的結果並未顯示,因休息或負載管理而缺席比賽,或者在參與比賽之間有更長
的休息時間,會減少未來球季內的受傷風險,」報告在摘要中以粗體字表示。

「此外,並未發現在賽程密集期間或立即在賽程密集時期後,受傷頻率較高。」

報告指出,即使考慮到球員年齡、出場時間和傷病歷史等因素,這一結論仍然成立。

The report based its findings off a 10-year sample -- from the 2013-14 season
through 2022-23 -- using leaguewide data and focusing on a group of 150
"starter-level players" each season. Those players were All-Stars from the
past three seasons, top 10 picks in that season's draft and the remaining
players with the most total minutes played in the prior season who don't fit
into either of the previous two groups

The report also focused on players missing a single game, rather than
multiple games in a row, and was split into players sitting specifically for
rest, as well as games in which a player missed time for rest or injury.


這份報告基於一個為期10年的樣本,從2013-14賽季到2022-23賽季,使用全聯盟數據,並
聚焦於每個賽季的一組150名「先發水準球員」。這些球員包括過去三個賽季的全明星球
員、當季選秀的前10名球員,以及不在上述任何一組但上一賽季總上場時間最多的其餘球
員。


報告還聚焦於缺席單場比賽的球員,而非連續缺席多場比賽,並將球員分為針對性休息的
情況,以及球員因受傷或為傷病休息而缺席比賽的情況。

Although the report said there were a variety of factors that limited the
scope of the findings -- the inability to examine trends from outside the
10-year window of data, and the different ways individual teams handle this
topic -- it repeatedly stressed that there was no correlation between load
management and ensuring players will be on the court more regularly.

While single-game absences for starter-level players skyrocketed over the
past decade -- from a combined 169 among starter-level players in 2014-15 to
380 in 2022-23 -- the number of regular-season injuries among starter-level
players also reached a 10-season high this past season.


儘管報告指出有多種因素限制了研究結果的範圍——例如無法檢視超出10年數據期間之外
的趨勢,以及各個球隊以不同方式處理這個問題的差異——但報告反復強調,負載管理和
確保球員更加規律上場之間不存在相關性。


儘管在過去的十年中,先發水準球員單場缺席的次數急劇增加——從2014-15賽季首發水
準球員中總共169次,增加到2022-23賽季的380次——在上一賽季,先發水準球員的例行賽
受傷次數也達到了10個賽季的最高單季總和。

Early in the report, it explained why it was commissioned this summer: the
ongoing discussion about star players missing games.

In the 1980s, star players -- a group defined by the report as players who
were either All-Star or All-NBA selections in the current season or the prior
two -- missed an average of 10.4 games per season, a number that was 10.6
games in the 1990s.

But that number jumped from 13.9 games in the 2000s to 17.5 games in the
2010s and 23.9 games in this decade.


在報告的前段,它解釋了為什麼在今年夏天委託進行這項研究:即有關明星球員缺席比賽
的討論。

在1980年代,明星球員——該報告定義為在當前賽季或前兩個賽季中被選為全明星或全
NBA的球員——每賽季平均缺席10.4場比賽,而在1990年代這個數字為10.6場。

但這個數字從2000年代的13.9場急劇增加到2010年代的17.5場,並在這個十年達到23.9場


NBA senior vice president of player matters Dave Weiss, asked if that
dramatic increase in missed games over the past 20 years could be attributed
to load management, said much of it was because of injury, but that
single-game absences for players had increased by about five times over that
span.

"Clearly, that's happening more than at just the rate of injuries," Weiss
said.

The report's findings -- establishing that load managing players does not
definitively lead to them being healthier -- was in line with what Dumars
said back in October.


NBA球員事務資深副總裁Dave Weiss在被問及過去20年間缺席比賽次數的急劇增加是否可
以歸因於負載管理時表示,其中大部分是由於受傷,但球員單場缺席的次數在這段時間內
增加了約五倍。


「顯然,這比傷病發生的速率更為頻繁,」Weiss說。

報告的結果——即對球員進行負載管理不能確定地使他們更健康——與Dumars在十月份所
言一致。

At last month's in-season tournament, Silver reiterated the stance that
there's no data-driven proof that the concept of load management keeps
players healthy. He called the science and medical data "mixed."

"The question is I think the ultimate question behind load management isn't
so much that there isn't a fall-off from performance when you are tired and
fatigued," he said. "The question is, does that lead to more injuries?"

That was in direct contrast to Silver's comments last February, when he said,
"The suggestion, I think, that these men, in the case in the NBA, somehow
should just be out there more for its own sake, I don't buy into."

上個月的季中錦標賽中,Silver重申了這一立場,即沒有數據證明負擔管理的概念能夠保
持球員的健康。他稱這方面的科學和醫學數據為「錯雜的」。

「我認為負載管理背後的最終問題並不是在你感到疲憊的時候表現會下降多少,」他說。
「問題是,這是否會導致更多的受傷?」

這與Silver去年二月的發言形成鮮明對比,當時他表示:「我不同意這種看法,即這些人
,在NBA的情況下,應該僅僅是為了自己而在場上待更長時間。」

Weiss said that change in tone was a function of the league deciding it was
necessary to study the data.

"We accepted that conventional wisdom and some of the information that teams
had shared with us over years, which included some data but never nearly as
robust as what we've now shared back," Weiss said. "And it hit a point where
we said, 'You know, we have been looking at this for years and we are not
seeing this effect, and so we think we need to get more formal and structured
in terms of how we're analyzing this and sharing it out with teams.' And
that's really kind of what led to this."

Weiss表示,這種態度轉變是聯盟認為有必要對數據進行研究的結果。

「我們接受了多年來球隊向我們分享的一些常規智慧和信息,其中包括一些數據,但從未
像我們現在分享的這麼全面,」Weiss說。「我們到達了這樣一個點,我們認為多年來一直
在研究這個問題,我們沒有看到這種效果,所以我們認為我們需要在如何分析這個問題並
將其與球隊資訊分享方面變得更加正式和結構化。這實際上就是這個研究的動因。」


(節錄自:https://reurl.cc/13eEmY)
Diving deep into data, the NBA, formally, says its numbers don’t back load management - The Athletic
[圖]
According to the NBA, its report on load management, "calls into question the conventional wisdom that it does ... reduce injuries." ...

 

作者:David Aldridge

The league pointed out that the report has limitations:

‧ It only covers regular-season games.
‧ It doesn’t account for players coming from the offseason and ramping up
for play before the start of a regular season.
‧ It does not determine how much the fatigue of playing more minutes or
games impacts players’ mental health, a major area of increased concern and
care by the league in recent years.
‧ It does not account for individual intensity of play (how much does one
player pace himself during a season, compared with another?)
‧ In addition, players over 35, who are eligible for exemptions from the
PPP, are such a relatively small sample group that more data may be needed to
see if they’re impacted differently.

聯盟也指出了這份報告的限制:

-這只包含了例行賽
-這並不考慮球員剛從休賽季回來例行賽提升狀態的過程
-這並沒有測量打更多時間與比賽的疲勞對於球員的心理健康是否有影響,這也是近年被聯
盟逐漸增加關注的一個主要領域。
-這並不考慮個別球員打球的張力(一名球員在賽季中如何調節自己的比賽強度,與另一名
球員相比如何?)
-另外,超過35歲的球員(也是球員出席政策的特例群體)樣本數相對較小所以需要更多數據
來觀察是否有不同的影響
--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 98.217.185.18 (美國)
※ 作者: EZ78 2024-01-14 06:51:16
※ 文章代碼(AID): #1benFc7x (NBA)
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/NBA/M.1705186278.A.1FB.html
※ 編輯: EZ78 (98.217.185.18 美國), 01/14/2024 06:51:46
badotise: 但b2b比賽多風險就變很高1F 01/14 06:53
EZ78: 並沒有 研究就是說沒有相關性
我比較困惑的是 既然沒證據顯示沒幫助 那也不應該禁止輪休= =2F 01/14 06:54
answertw: 很好奇一樓是如何以除了情感外的因素得到結論的5F 01/14 06:55
coiico: 輪休對票房有負面影響 輪休和是否受傷沒有相關性6F 01/14 07:01
coyoteY: 禁止輪休主要是為了票房吧7F 01/14 07:01
o0991758566: 單純比賽可能真不是直接因素 個人先天素質 訓練模式可能還比較有關8F 01/14 07:01
coiico: 兩者放一起 得到禁止輪休的結論不意外吧10F 01/14 07:02
o0991758566: 沒幫助那當然聯盟要你出賽啊==  亮相給觀眾看11F 01/14 07:02
EZ78: 確實 感覺這決定商業面的考量應該大於醫療面12F 01/14 07:03
LFTK: 多少海外球迷一輩子去不了幾次 然後去了球員輪休==13F 01/14 07:04
MK47: 中職再度領先 越投越帶勁14F 01/14 07:06
coiico: 我是想知道球員跳的高度 是否和受傷頻率有相關性15F 01/14 07:07
driftcreator: 可以說這份研究只是解開了部分迷霧 並沒有具體結論16F 01/14 07:08
LFTK: 現在真的很少球星打滿82場 看紅色光頭生涯一排82
滿敬佩的17F 01/14 07:09
driftcreator: TA那篇報導中,有明確把環境限制條件寫出來19F 01/14 07:10
我來節錄一下Aldridge的文好了
coiico: 喬丹中後期裁判有特別保護他20F 01/14 07:11
yuffieAK47: 但對球員心理健康有幫助21F 01/14 07:12
coiico: 而且喬丹算是蠻自律的球員22F 01/14 07:12
※ 編輯: EZ78 (98.217.185.18 美國), 01/14/2024 07:14:06
※ 編輯: EZ78 (98.217.185.18 美國), 01/14/2024 07:20:54
O10lOl01O: 我懂了 所以應該要天天上場 雙贏!23F 01/14 07:14
driftcreator: 就變數太多很難控 老錫有抱怨過輿論只看場上操球員但都沒有意識到場下(他)對球員訓練的調控配套24F 01/14 07:17
LFTK: 現在的哨音尺度應該也算滿保護球員了26F 01/14 07:19
※ 編輯: EZ78 (98.217.185.18 美國), 01/14/2024 07:22:18
mirac1e: 殺豬公戰法 操就對了27F 01/14 07:24
bruce1119: 報告也指出近年缺賽率高,這之中是真的因傷缺賽的是否也是相對增加的28F 01/14 07:28
EZ78: 是 近幾年職業球員(而且不只籃球)傷病都有大量爆增的趨勢 這是一個很多人都在研究的主題30F 01/14 07:31
alex8725: 強度有差32F 01/14 07:31
mepass: 沒受傷風險 當然就是要盡量出賽33F 01/14 07:31
k798976869: 減少b2b場次就好惹34F 01/14 07:32
alex8725: 其實就跟棒球投手近年來動刀率越來越高一樣35F 01/14 07:33
EZ78: 只是NBA這份報告是聚焦在輪休上而已 傷病變多算是普遍的共識36F 01/14 07:33
f77928: 確實 82場 48分鐘就對了 奈瓜KD48根本先知寂寞38F 01/14 07:33
alex8725: 差別是棒球有個客觀的球速數據能告訴您你球速越快越容易動刀39F 01/14 07:34
cangyisu: 然後這新聞出來 咖哩今天輪休41F 01/14 07:34
alex8725: 記得也有人認為近年pace提升增加球員負擔?42F 01/14 07:37
EZ78: 研究這方面的很多 Holmes就認為是美國運動員系統性的問題43F 01/14 07:38
evangelew: 噁心的阿銀45F 01/14 07:39
EZ78: 這個問題太複雜 這份只是暫時說輪休沒證據有沒有效果而已46F 01/14 07:39
evangelew: 他們這根本話術大賽xd48F 01/14 07:39
alex8725: 我自己覺得1.美國青少年也走向過早專精化/接受高強度訓練2.比賽強度、節奏的上升對於球員負擔加大49F 01/14 07:40
evangelew: E版說的沒錯 因為很多實驗沒法限制變因下 你做出的結論就往往是不顯著 而無有效證據證明51F 01/14 07:40
alex8725: 主因當然是$ 但商業聯盟怎麼可能不談53F 01/14 07:40
evangelew: 這反過來說 你也無法證明這絕對沒用阿
棒球本身負載管理就行之有年了 例如新人投手的
新人球季的投球局數限制 到了還往往會提前關機
運動本身一定需要負載管理 球團能進行控制的也就是54F 01/14 07:41
alex8725: 不過棒球也有Don Cooper這種認為球數限制就是沒道理的人就是58F 01/14 07:43
evangelew: 出賽時間跟出賽場次
一定肌肉疲勞會大幅增加受傷風險的已經是難以反駁的60F 01/14 07:43
alex8725: 所以就是 還真都沒有結論 反對棒球這種球數管理的人一樣可以說有管還不是一堆去動刀 甚至還有人認為就是平常投太少才會一投就受傷62F 01/14 07:44
airash800513: [情報] Hollinger:從球隊的角度來談談"負荷管理"
https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/NBA/M.1677068372.A.D7C.h65F 01/14 07:44
[情報] Hollinger:從球隊的角度來談談"負荷管理" - NBA板 - Disp BBS
[圖]
creative 消息來源: 內容:前灰熊副總裁 Hollinger:從球隊的角度來談談“負荷管理” 擷錄片段 在此我想說的是:上世紀80年代的球員不進行"負荷管理",並且他們中的一部分確實表 現得
evangelew: 現在只是運動員有個別體質的差異 所以投多少球會67F 01/14 07:45
airash800513: tml68F 01/14 07:45
evangelew: 導致受傷風險開始大幅上升 這樣的問題69F 01/14 07:45
o0991758566: 比賽方式也有關 像JA 以前的Rose 打法上來看耗損70F 01/14 07:46
isequ: 多少還是有影響啦 不然你各位怎麼不每天跑健身房?71F 01/14 07:46
o0991758566:  風險會比較高 結果也是如此 但個人先天身體素質可72F 01/14 07:46
isequ: 休息必要性又有個人體質分別73F 01/14 07:46
o0991758566: 能還是最重要 Westbook也是各種飛 要不是遇到血貝是74F 01/14 07:46
mirac1e: 不過球員本來就是高薪的消耗品
為了怕受傷所以減少上場時間 有點本末倒置75F 01/14 07:46
o0991758566: 沒大傷過的 而且到現在也是打得好好的77F 01/14 07:46
airash800513: 貼錯篇,囧,ez版之前有一篇有提到越來越多還沒進聯盟就開刀的球員78F 01/14 07:47
alex8725: 龜龜其實被傷影響不少就是80F 01/14 07:47
evangelew: 是阿 龜龜被影響真的不少81F 01/14 07:48
Zacoe: 用這種方式統計,出來的結果就是大便82F 01/14 07:51
f77928: 尊重科學好嗎 既然沒有任何統計推論上的意義 就是操好操滿才對得起到場球迷 個體差異什麼的重要嗎83F 01/14 07:55
MDAISUKE18: 這種不就變成跟輔助判決一樣,看開頭先站在哪一邊,但沒有證據可以推翻85F 01/14 08:03
mangojocker: 美國青少年並沒有過早接受菁英化訓練吧 AAU的商業利益讓青少年打太多比賽而且不練球的球隊很多 都是依賴天賦  這NBA明星很早就出來討論過 抨擊現在的AAU 打太多比賽導致青少年太早耗損而且基礎技術幾乎都沒有打磨87F 01/14 08:03
EZ78: 打AAU要打好的前提就是要大量菁英化訓練阿
所以就變成整年都是比賽->訓練->比賽->訓練的循環92F 01/14 08:05
TheoEpstein: 就年輕人太早就開始操,手臂膝蓋都是消耗品94F 01/14 08:18
gakuto: 不懂對這份報告結論的邏輯..95F 01/14 08:19
TheoEpstein: 跟以前一樣大四打完才進NBA的話,少三年一年差50場96F 01/14 08:19
gakuto: 若研究結果是 負載管理與減輕受傷風險沒相關
照理說不就是表示 負載管理對減輕受傷沒幫助了嗎
標題卻又說沒證據 有幫助或沒幫助
當然 "沒相關"不表示因果關係 也不能當"證據"
但結論還是支持兩者不具相關性
總之就是感覺在玩文字遊戲啦97F 01/14 08:20
EZ78:  https://i.imgur.com/0V4P2wt.jpg
標題是我簡化記者的推文的 但你可以直接理解為就是沒有任何關聯103F 01/14 08:29
[圖]
ewayne: 好科學喔,現在吹一堆運科,球員到底有因為運科而更健康更耐操嗎?怎麼老人殺豬公的訓練,反而一堆都可以打滿整季的?
每天都在運科,科到球員變玻璃人。有一種運動項目很運科啦,運科到每個參與者都是有名的玻璃人,那項運動叫做健美。203F 01/14 12:00
Xliao: 介於有用或沒用之間 叫你寫報告不是叫你談玄學欸209F 01/14 14:44
yoyibbi: 我覺得大家都忽視球員可能習慣不好這件事210F 01/14 18:03

--
作者 EZ78 的最新發文:
點此顯示更多發文記錄