看板 NBA作者 XXXaBg (對的事情做一千次)標題 [外絮] 苦命和Kerr在辦公室認真討論後化解矛盾時間 Sat Jan 6 18:17:53 2024
Jonathan Kuminga meets with Steve Kerr to quell festering Warriors issues: ‘I
love it here’
https://i.imgur.com/o2DcuYf.jpg
SAN FRANCISCO — In the aftermath of The Athletic’s report that Jonathan Kumi
nga had lost faith in Steve Kerr’s ability to maximize his potential, the Gol
den State Warriors’ head coach and third-year wing met in Kerr’s office befo
re Friday night’s 113-109 win over the Detroit Pistons.
在《The Athletic’s》報導說Jonathan Kuminga對於Steve Kerr能否最大化他的潛力失
去信心之後,金州勇士隊的主教練和這位第三年的前鋒在週五晚上對底特律活塞的比賽前
在Kerr的辦公室會面,最終以113-109獲勝。
Kuminga’s latest frustration came a night earlier when he watched the final 1
8 minutes from the bench — and particularly the agonizing final six minutes
— as the Warriors let an 18-point lead over the Denver Nuggets slip away into
another gut-punch lost.
Kuminga前一晚的挫折來自於他在板凳席上觀看最後18分鐘的比賽,尤其是令人痛苦的最
後6分鐘,看著勇士隊讓18分的領先優勢滑落為對丹佛金塊的又一次沮喪的失利。
Kerr’s decision to limit Kuminga to 19 minutes and zero in the fourth quarter
, despite 16 points prior and an obvious need for his downhill skill set, was
placed under a harsh microscope. Kuminga’s boiling feelings surfaced to the p
ublic. Kerr felt a face-to-face conversation necessary. Speaking after the win
over Detroit, Kuminga said the discussion had a positive impact.
儘管Kuminga在之前已得到16分,並且明顯需要他的突破技巧,Kerr仍決定將Kuminga的上
場時間限制在19分鐘,且在第四節完全不上場。這一決策受到了嚴厲的檢視。Kuminga的
怒火被公之於眾。Kerr認為面對面的交談是必要的。在對底特律的勝利後談話時,Kuming
a表示這次討論產生了積極的影響。
“I think it went really well,” Kuminga said. “I think it was just all about
better understanding of each other. More communication. We don’t really get
to sit together as much and communicate about pretty much non-basketball thing
s, basketball things. We don’t get to do that as much. Just us having that co
nversation today made me more comfortable that any time I have something to as
k, I should just go up to his office. His door is open. Go up there and chill
and wait for him to come back whenever. I think that’s what it’s all about,
communication every single time if something is going wrong. Communication is
the key.”
「我認為這次談話進行得非常好,」Kuminga說。「我認為這主要是關於彼此更好的理解
。更多的溝通。我們不太有機會坐在一起談論非籃球的事情,籃球的事情。我們不太有機
會這樣做。僅僅是我們今天有了這樣的對話,讓我更舒服,隨時有問題就去他的辦公室。
他的門是開著的。上去坐著等他回來。我認為這就是關鍵,每當有問題時就要溝通。溝通
是解決問題的關鍵。」
Kuminga played a season-high 36 minutes against the Pistons. He didn’t rest a
single second in the fourth quarter. He had 11 points and six rebounds and sp
ent the majority of crunchtime as the primary defender on Cade Cunningham. It
was his 12th consecutive game in the starting lineup, but Kuminga is still yet
to play 30-plus minutes in consecutive games in his career. So the playing-ti
me tracker will continue to be monitored.
Kuminga在對活塞的比賽中出場了本季最高的36分鐘。他在第四節沒有休息一分一秒。他
得到11分和6個籃板,並在大部分關鍵時刻作為對Cade Cunningham的主要防守者。這是他
連續第12場比賽首發,但Kuminga的職業生涯中仍然沒有連續兩場比賽出場30分鐘以上。
因此,上場時間的追踪將繼續被追蹤。
“I never complained about playing time (during the meeting),” Kuminga said.
“We were just talking about if I do great at something, just go back and remi
nd him, ‘Yo, coach, what do I need to do to get better at this? What do I nee
d to do to gain more trust or more minutes?’ Like I said, it’s more about co
mmunication and better understanding from both of us.”
「我在會議中從未抱怨過上場時間,」Kuminga說。「我們只是在談論如果我做得很好,
就回去提醒他,”喂,教練,我需要做什麼來變得更好?我需要做什麼來獲得更多的信任
或更多的上場時間?”就像我說的,這更多的是關於溝通和我們雙方更好的理解。」
Kuminga’s uneasiness about his fluctuating role — which dates to the previou
s postseason when he went from an integral part of the rotation the final two
months of the regular season to a bench bystander after Andrew Wiggins returne
d from a long personal absence — has generated questions about his future wit
h the Warriors. Does he want to be with them long-term? Will he still be on th
e roster past the Feb. 8 trade deadline? After Friday’s meeting, how does he
feel about his standing in the organization and with Kerr in general?
Kuminga對他波動的角色感到不安 — 這可以追溯到上一個賽季的季後賽,當時他從例行
賽最後兩個月成為陣容的重要一部分,到Andrew Wiggins從長時間的個人缺席回歸後變成
了板凳大使 — 這引發了關於他與勇士未來的問題。他想長期留在這支球隊嗎?他會在2
月8日交易截止日期之後仍在隊中嗎?在週五的會議之後,他對自己在球隊中的地位和與K
err的一般關係有何看法?
“I love it here,” Kuminga said. “I got drafted here. There’s always ups an
d downs. I feel like when you look at all the ups and downs, that will confuse
a lot of people. But I know Steve believes in me. I know he trusts me at this
point. It was just more about communication and better understanding. It wasn
’t no beef. None of that. Scratch whatever happens. It’s the past. Move on w
ith better understanding and hoping we all can work with each other and help t
his team and leave everything in the past.”
「我很愛這裡,」Kuminga說。「我是在這裡被選中的。總會有起伏。我覺得當你看所有
的起伏時,會讓很多人感到困惑。但我知道Steve相信我。我知道他此刻對我有信任。這
更多的是關於溝通和更好的理解。這不是什麼爭吵。不是那些。忘掉發生的一切。這是過
去的事。以更好的理解向前看,希望我們都能互相合作,幫助這個團隊,把一切都留在過
去。」
What does that better understanding entail?
這種更好的理解包括什麼?
“All together a better understanding of certain things on the floor I need to
do to get the team better,” Kuminga said. “Who is he going with tonight or
the next night? Who he trusts the most? As a coach, you talk about who you tru
st the most or who is producing things as a coach you want at the moment. So i
t was all about those little things. As we sat together and spoke about it, it
went well.”
「更好地理解在場上需要做些什麼來使球隊變得更好的某些事情,」Kuminga說。「今晚
或下一場比賽他會選誰?他最信任誰?作為教練,你談到你最信任的人,或者是在當時作
為教練想要的產出。所以這都是關於這些小事情。當我們坐在一起談論這些時,一切進行
得很順利。」
The crux of the problem is the Warriors’ inability to fit Kuminga and Wiggins
on the floor together. Entering Friday, they were a cumulative minus-66 toget
her as a pairing in 131 minutes. The Warriors have an analytics department tha
t feeds the coaching staff these numbers, partly fueling their lineup choices.
It’s why Kerr has maintained a hesitancy to play his two bigger wings togeth
er, calling them a “redundant” pairing.
問題的核心是勇士隊無法將Kuminga和Wiggins一起安排在場上。計至週五,他們同時在場
上時,在131分鐘的正負值為-66。勇士隊有一個分析部門為教練團隊提供這些數據,部分
推動他們的陣容選擇。這就是為什麼Kerr對於讓他的兩個較大的前鋒一起上場持謹慎態度
,稱他們為「重複」的搭配。
But he tried to find time for them together against the Pistons. They were on
the floor for six minutes together. They outscored Detroit by seven points. Bu
t Wiggins struggled to a 1-of-5 shooting night and didn’t provide much else.
So he was limited to 19 minutes and Kuminga received 36.
但他嘗試在對活塞的比賽中讓他們一起上場。他們一起在場上6分鐘。他們以7分的優勢超
過底特律。但Wiggins投籃5投1中,沒有提供太多其他幫助。因此他被限制在19分鐘,而K
uminga獲得了36分鐘。
“I’m gonna keep it real,” Kuminga said. “I went to Coach and talked about
me playing with Wiggs. I don’t want it to seem like me and Wiggs are out here
fighting every day for minutes. I know Wiggs come to work every day not think
ing about that. Same with me. I don’t come to work every day thinking about t
aking Wiggs’ minutes, taking this guy’s minutes. We come here to play good a
nd help the team win and accomplish things that we all as a team are about. Ch
ampionship and all that. Whenever the team win, everybody win. Just moving for
ward, it’s really all about what the team needs first and concerned about the
rest after.”
「我要保持真實,」Kuminga說。「我去找教練談論我和Wiggs一起打球。我不想讓人覺得
我和Wiggs在這裡每天為了上場時間而爭鬥。我知道Wiggs每天都來工作,而不是在想這個
。我也是,我每天來工作不是在想著拿走Wiggs的上場時間,也不是在想著搶走這個傢伙
的上場時間。我們來這裡是為了打得好,幫助球隊贏球,實現我們整個團隊所追求的目標
。冠軍等等。只要球隊贏了,每個人都贏了。所以向前看,這真的全都是關於球隊首先需
要什麼,然後再關心其他事情。」
In the immediate future, more minutes are opening up in the Warriors’ rotatio
n. Chris Paul fractured his left hand against the Pistons and will get surgery
next week. He is out indefinitely. Kerr said that’ll give Brandin Podziemski
, Cory Joseph and Moses Moody a bump in opportunity. But it could also creep o
pen the door to experiment more with Kuminga and Wiggins lineups.
在不久的將來,更多的上場時間將在勇士隊的輪換中開放。Chris Paul在對活塞的比賽中
左手骨折,將在下週進行手術。他無限期缺席。Kerr表示,這將給Brandin Podziemski、
Cory Joseph和Moses Moody帶來更多機會。但這也可能為Kuminga和Wiggins的陣容組合打
開一扇門。
Draymond Green’s impending return from his indefinite suspension will regener
ate another logjam. But that’s another depth problem for another day.
Draymond Green即將從他的無限期停賽中歸來,將再次引發陣容擁擠問題。但那是未來某
一天的另一個深度問題。
“I’ve been there before,” Curry said of Kuminga. “He’s not wrong for bein
g upset and pissed off, wanting to play. Probably should’ve played. Not proba
bly. … But the ultimate challenge for anybody in this league is to not let th
e narrative be told for you and you not be able to address that with your own
voice or directly with Coach or whatever the case is. We all go through our ch
allenges. We all go through our learning lessons. Like I said, he’s not wrong
for being upset and frustrated. I heard Coach talk about. He was kind of half
-joking but serious about 15 years he was always upset with playing time. That
’s a talking point in every locker room in some way, shape or form. There are
ways to express it, ways to voice your opinion but protect the team. I’m jus
t proud of the way he — we talked about it before the game. Go out and play.
Go hoop. Be a professional. And that’s what he did.”
「我以前也經歷過這種情況,」Curry說到Kuminga。「他對於生氣和沮喪,想要上場是沒
有錯的。可能應該上場。不是可能… 但對於這個聯盟中的任何人來說,最終的挑戰是不
讓敘事為你所設定,而你不能用自己的聲音或直接與教練等方式來解決。我們都經歷過我
們的挑戰。我們都經歷過我們的學習課程。就像我說的,他對於生氣和沮喪是沒有錯的。
我聽到教練談到了。他有點開玩笑但又是認真的,說他15年來總是對上場時間不滿。這在
每個更衣室都是某種方式的話題。有表達它的方法,有發表你的意見的方式,但要保護球
隊。我只是為他的方式感到驕傲 — 我們在賽前談過。出去打球。去打籃球。做一名專業
人士。這就是他所做的。」
https://theathletic.com/5182703/2024/01/06/jonathan-kuminga-steve-kerr-meet/
總結:Kerr靠著嘴遁暫時化解了危機
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※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 88.157.111.99 (葡萄牙)
※ 作者: XXXaBg 2024-01-06 18:17:53
※ 文章代碼(AID): #1bcIZJxk (NBA)
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/NBA/M.1704536275.A.EEE.html
推 ZEALOTGO: 至於你們信不信,反正我是信了1F 01/06 18:18
→ RevanHsu: 化解矛盾就是談好送走吧 學長要回來了你更沒時間打8F 01/06 18:20
推 f77928: 好啦 大家可以回家了9F 01/06 18:20
推 QoGIVoQ: 沒關係 現在至少不是C11了12F 01/06 18:20
→ AtDe: 應該只是穩住.實際上還是要換出去吧13F 01/06 18:20
推 axi: 嘴綠要回來 苦命縮了(x17F 01/06 18:21
→ alex8725: 安撫而已啦 根本矛盾又沒解決18F 01/06 18:21
→ waei: 不是因為CP3手斷了20F 01/06 18:21
→ QoGIVoQ: 之後打得膠著 還是只信任老人 還多了個嘴綠21F 01/06 18:22
→ alex8725: 除非勇士直接賣嘴綠但想也知道不可能22F 01/06 18:22
推 hiphopboy7: 既然都要坐下溝通那何必一開始就公開出怪聲呢?24F 01/06 18:22
推 EXUAN: 贏活塞超級坦隊沒問題27F 01/06 18:23
推 illumi: 講了之後上36分阿,沒看moody比較小聲的結果30F 01/06 18:23
→ EXUAN: 遇強隊給我坐滿整節31F 01/06 18:23
→ gp03dan: 然後還要微笑握手合照?33F 01/06 18:24
→ k798976869: 湯是自己打不好 要是讓他準起來又要不跑戰術爛投惹41F 01/06 18:26
推 m180: Kerr當年揍過喬丹 不知真假42F 01/06 18:26
推 dwiee: 嘴綠要回來了 苦命叫什麼叫45F 01/06 18:27
推 isequ: 圍巾掰51F 01/06 18:28
推 bxxl: Kerr啟動上場時間申訴機制52F 01/06 18:28
→ isequ: 苦命不氣氛了 圍巾就更危險了54F 01/06 18:28
推 REI3173: 報告長官,吃得好住得好各個學習情緒高55F 01/06 18:28
推 puro: 進辦公室後看到綠師傅坐在那 然後科學家鎖門 出來之後就通體舒暢了 勇士的都在內部談就是那麼簡單57F 01/06 18:29
推 TimmyJiang: 這劇本我幾年前在富邦悍將也看過,釣蝦和神全和解說沒事沒事60F 01/06 18:30
→ isequ: 現在只剩下要處理掉那幾個不想贏的62F 01/06 18:30
推 Erishcross: 嘴綠是不是站在你後面談 被逼了下場記得給鏡頭眨眼64F 01/06 18:30
推 p0916336248: 我是不信啦,過個幾場又開始冰,當初冰穆迪被罵不也給個幾場又繼續冰67F 01/06 18:32
推 kkk900100: 一天解決氣氛 一月解決生病 勇士真厲害70F 01/06 18:33
推 mepass: 場面話當然要說的好聽 實際怎樣就不知道了71F 01/06 18:33
推 lens82801: 先看看就好,交易大限過後人還在不在才是真的73F 01/06 18:34
→ mepass: 我看圍巾也需要看心理治療 上場根本都在放空74F 01/06 18:34
推 f77928: 給台階就趕快下了 苦命聰明 沒皮到被扁才知道收斂76F 01/06 18:36
推 attpp: 苦命僧78F 01/06 18:36
推 mashiroro: 幹嘛?下藥了還是催眠了還是辦公室裡有隻綠師傅?79F 01/06 18:37
推 AngelNo13: 苦命昨天那宣言等於直接跟對內老將槓上了,不覺得kerr 能化解什麼80F 01/06 18:37
推 fascinated: 吵一吵就上滿第四節,who’s next? XDDD85F 01/06 18:38
推 reaman: 走進辦公室發現擂台擺好了91F 01/06 18:42
→ mayeve: Moody更需要去辦公室…93F 01/06 18:42
推 MrTen: 下一場對暴龍 Moody應可上得久吧 打得好就帶走了97F 01/06 18:46
推 seabox: 苦明真的有很強嗎? 給他球權未必能刷到20+吧
而且外線又不準 常常無腦切進去102F 01/06 18:47
推 Gilbertsky: 問題主要在於圍巾現在很爛 不然也沒有他說話的份106F 01/06 18:49
推 waderu: 這翻譯看的有點痛苦107F 01/06 18:49
→ peter080808: 新秀合約+未來簽約保護 他預計還會在勇士多待5年111F 01/06 18:50
推 ebok: 交易我看比較快112F 01/06 18:50
→ isequ: 想要等圍巾cd好 問題是根本沒人知道他cd得多久阿113F 01/06 18:51
推 syk1104: 是不是辦公室裡還多了一個嘴綠?真是隊伍潤滑劑115F 01/06 18:52
推 roywow: 怎麼不叫上嘴綠 馬上解決116F 01/06 18:52
→ peter080808: 一個7號順位的被壓上場時間 前面兩個敗分老將簡直笑死117F 01/06 18:52
推 forsell: 好長,等等再看,先推119F 01/06 18:52
推 Xhocer: 被摸頭惹真可憐123F 01/06 18:55
→ isequ: 苦命還有贏球本事 圍巾你每次就看他一臉懵逼在敗球124F 01/06 18:55
噓 leophior: 想太多.勇士薪資卡死了 他要大約就是去別隊125F 01/06 18:56
推 diding: 摸頭完還會繼續冰嗎127F 01/06 18:59
推 a11011788: 搓湯圓搓掉 要乖還是等綠師傅會來教訓自己選128F 01/06 18:59
→ pttnowash: Green下一個要揍的應該就是苦命家130F 01/06 19:01
推 your1225: 羌民眼紅蛹蛹氣氛重修舊好 還是先關心自家休息室吧132F 01/06 19:02
推 petercyf: 距離2/8還有一個月,我們拭目以待唷133F 01/06 19:02
推 free120: 贏球真的就治好了?134F 01/06 19:02
→ babyMclaren: 事後諸葛看Poole …
覺度curry還是比較強139F 01/06 19:07
推 mepass: 苦命身材比普爾好多了 誰揍誰還不知道141F 01/06 19:07
推 pttnowash: 你覺得Green揍人有管身材? 狗貝兒表示:142F 01/06 19:09
推 pimachu: kerr:老闆聽不到你可以拍桌子144F 01/06 19:11
推 EQUP: 就看後面的調度啊 Kerr到底有沒有學乖就等著看145F 01/06 19:11
推 AxelGod: 綠師傅回來後 又要出4了 Kerr準備好了嗎?149F 01/06 19:12
→ kobebrian: 武林高手在場上都是偷襲對手居多 人家在打球沒空理他就出手 真的要單挑拳怕少壯151F 01/06 19:13
推 korgh413: Kerr是不是雞湯大師,KT和苦命都被說服154F 01/06 19:14
推 fxm20334: kerr :green在看156F 01/06 19:17
→ kaka2001: 等一拳回來又要被縮減時間了159F 01/06 19:19
→ a9564208: 輸活塞才是新聞,這算贏球治百病嗎?160F 01/06 19:20
推 kauw: 有吵有糖吃165F 01/06 19:24
→ alex0973: 小男孩教練 嘴巴講講 然後繼續冰你167F 01/06 19:27
推 Blazeleo819: 苦命打開辦公室的門 ,發現嘴綠在裡面,Kerr轉身把門鎖上。168F 01/06 19:28
推 darkz: 敢氣氛喔 嘴綠回來還不賞你兩拳172F 01/06 19:28
推 ARRO: 被摸頭之後把頭髮剃光了174F 01/06 19:29
推 DPP48: 快了,不是被送走就是自己走178F 01/06 19:34
推 killuaz: Kerr 有相信我之術179F 01/06 19:35
噓 PKming: 笑死☺ 大家都是大人了~誰會信?180F 01/06 19:36
→ s899456: 如果是輸球就不會這樣講了XD181F 01/06 19:36
→ alex0973: 暫時性敷衍和拖延 實則無法解決問題 偉大的四冠COY182F 01/06 19:37
→ VL1003: 都不爽到團隊直接公開講了,我是不信開個會就能解決183F 01/06 19:39
推 abbei: 干阿捏184F 01/06 19:40
推 mk1689: 一個循環開始了185F 01/06 19:40
推 hot413: 被摸頭了186F 01/06 19:40
推 kaiDX: 沒事了,大家可以回家了187F 01/06 19:42
→ VL1003: 大概是球團跟苦命協商好,交易前先這樣公關避免掉價188F 01/06 19:43
推 yurikim: 相信我之術Kerr想必也懂一些些
要是談一談就能解決 也不會鬧到上新聞190F 01/06 19:50
推 lxf: kerr :大學長要回來了193F 01/06 19:53
推 kauw: 皇城一片河蟹194F 01/06 19:54
推 z789252: kerr 究竟是真心要改變苦命家的現況還是畫大餅,5場內就會知道了198F 01/06 19:57
→ alex0973: VL大說的個人覺得有理耶 避免掉價XD203F 01/06 20:00
推 Fantasy7th: Kerr開頭第一句:你知道綠哥要回來了嗎204F 01/06 20:01
推 casiogogo: kerr: 再忍一下 未來場場讓你打45 分207F 01/06 20:16
→ shellback: 會和平交易走你 別再放話了 氣氛仔價錢差208F 01/06 20:18
→ ohiyo104: 嘴綠是不是在Kerr的背後213F 01/06 20:31
推 csyhri: 有上班的人都知道豪洨214F 01/06 20:32
→ viagraho: 斑馬去勇士怎麼可能坐板凳 比魯尼SARIC強一百倍吧215F 01/06 20:33
推 Max7169: 事實就是 勇士得趕緊交易 強的不夠強 爛的不夠爛 所以才會有上場時間不夠的問題
嘴綠回來 這問題更難解了217F 01/06 20:41
推 yoyonigo: 然後面談結束後 就被嘴綠抓去剃寸頭?(誤220F 01/06 20:43
推 macair: 氣氛仔要溫板凳搵到吹密了221F 01/06 20:50
推 bearbrik: 贏球治百病,後面看會不會再有劇場222F 01/06 20:56
推 janptt124: 膠著需要他的突破衝擊時 確凍美條三分線出手 幹
來回4分差
都是這樣225F 01/06 21:20
推 Xliao: 贏坦隊一場就能冰釋前嫌是在騙小孩喔 勇士需要的是一年82場活塞隊吧228F 01/06 21:25
推 hunder31: 結果冬轉還是被賣 就好笑了231F 01/06 21:41
推 gtq: 然後就交易又掉了233F 01/06 21:44
推 a2156700: 結論 苦命和圍巾搶一個位置上場237F 01/06 22:16
→ kkkkk9: 明明一堆球隊雙前鋒都
沒問題,就你勇士不行,kerr改思考思考吧242F 01/06 22:46
→ kkkkk9: 沒替他們設計戰術還說同時在場上效率最差,阿就你沒在練,是要怎麼提升效率245F 01/06 22:48
推 tassadar1: 只有打得好還不配上場,還得抱怨才能打坦隊多上一點249F 01/06 23:16
→ L1ON: 綠師傅:沒有一拳解決不了的事,有就勒脖子250F 01/07 00:13
→ ojizz4u: 氣氛完就先開綠燈上場久一點,然後....252F 01/07 00:14
→ ilsr: 但辣個人要回來了254F 01/07 00:49
推 pokiman: 約到走人吧球權不再身上很難打出身價255F 01/07 01:08
推 billyhuan: Kerr:要被整骨還是聽我的,選一個吧256F 01/07 01:11
推 otaku690: 原來是被剃頭 被kerr257F 01/07 01:13
推 aegisWIsL: kerr:聽我的還是聽嘴綠的 自己選258F 01/07 01:22
推 zyic: 雙前鋒可以的前提要有三分啊,苦命的三分比圍巾還爛,怎麼還會覺得雙前鋒可以呢260F 01/07 01:26
推 whhw: 真假262F 01/07 01:39
推 justaID: 11樓的圖有笑有推 好懷念的剛安內全集263F 01/07 02:36
推 kill78941: Kerr:綠師傅要回來了你聽不聽話264F 01/07 02:54
→ jas0083: 關門放嘴綠這樣?266F 01/07 07:49
→ rony98: Kerr:聽說嘴綠要回來了 苦命:絕對服從教練命令268F 01/07 08:26
推 GBF8U572: 保安隊長回來了 管你什麼矛什麼盾272F 01/07 10:53
推 fantacliff: 打開辦公室的大門嘴綠跟柯學家在裡面,都不用討論273F 01/07 12:51
→ me91: Kerr:綠師傅明天歸隊 苦命:哪有什麼矛盾,都媒體亂寫,別在意274F 01/07 15:37
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