---

※ 引述《cychine (來自非洲大草原)》之銘言：
: okay
: 事情是這樣的
: 城武剛剛看完蒼瀾鴿水管影片
: 有位中醫仔居然質疑西醫的中耳積水開孔是無稽之談
那位是高醫醫學系(或者是高醫後西醫系)畢業的，修西學中45學分拿中醫執照，

  質疑西醫中耳積水開洞，根本是西西大戰，

    影片的內容也沒提到甚麼中醫的內容，

      中耳積水開洞，蒼藍鴿自己引的第二篇論文中引用的reference再看看

      裝通氣管的complication，裝到底有沒有比不裝好?

    可能還是得請鴿自己再比較看看

Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews Review - Intervention
Grommets (ventilation tubes) for hearing loss associated with otitis media
with effusion in children
Version published: 06 October 2010 Version history

https://doi-org.lib3.cgmh.org.tw:30443/10.1002/14651858.CD001801.pub3

Main results
We included 10 trials (1728 participants). Some trials randomised children
(grommets versus no grommets), others ears (grommet one ear only). The
severity of OME in children varied between trials. Only one 'by child' study
(MRC: TARGET) had particularly stringent audiometric entry criteria. No trial
was identified that used long‐term grommets.

Grommets were mainly beneficial in the first six months by which time natural
resolution lead to improved hearing in the non‐surgically treated children
also. Only one high quality trial that randomised children (N = 211) reported
results at three months; the mean hearing level was 12 dB better (95% CI 10
to 14 dB) in those treated with grommets as compared to the controls. Meta‐
analyses of three high quality trials (N = 523) showed a benefit of 4 dB (95%
CI 2 to 6 dB) at six to nine months. At 12 and 18 months follow up no
differences in mean hearing levels were found.

Data from three trials that randomised ears (N = 230 ears) showed similar
effects to the trials that randomised children. At four to six months mean
hearing level was 10 dB better in the grommet ear (95% CI 5 to 16 dB), and at
CI 3 to 8 dB) dB better.

No effect was found on language or speech development or for behaviour,
cognitive or quality of life outcomes.

Tympanosclerosis was seen in about a third of ears that received grommets.
在接受通氣管手術的患耳，約1/3會有鼓膜硬化(鈣化)

Otorrhoea was common in infants, but in older children (three to seven years)
occurred in < 2% of grommet ears over two years of follow up.

要是沒時間慢慢看，那就看作者結論
Authors' conclusions
In children with OME the effect of grommets on hearing, as measured by
standard tests, appears small and diminishes after six to nine months by
which time natural resolution also leads to improved hearing in the non‐
surgically treated children.
裝通氣管對術後6-9個月後聽力改善效果看起來是不高(small) 並且會逐漸減少
因為即使不開刀治療的小孩也會自然改善

No effect was found on other child outcomes but
data on these were sparse. No study has been performed in children with
established speech, language, learning or developmental problems so no
conclusions can be made regarding treatment of such children.


: 這位老兄中醫仔根本是開地圖砲跟112醫學院開戰了吧
: 蒼瀾鴿好歹是合太醬料栽培畢業的主治
高醫且讀過112醫學院(檢驗科系?) vs 台大醫

: 話說回來中醫仔如果那麼神
: 歐美醫學與各大藥材醫材大廠早就全面採用了
: 中醫的學理要大數據沒大數據
: 要實驗對照組也生不出什麼東西來
大數據沒大數據其實這句話已經不完全正確了，實驗對照組也不是沒有東西

嚴格的說起來，只是這樣的資料逐漸再增加，但是還不多。

但只要提到中醫大抵上很多人就沒辦法理性討論，

所以最終是一種大家各自擁護各自信仰的狀況


今天林如果真的有辦法做到

3個月內顯著改善耳膜積水，並且比隨機分配的natural course的

好，或者與同時間裝通氣管的結果類似，我想也沒甚麼好說。

這個才一錘定音。

: 有沒有中醫仔目中無人的八卦
: 在線等
目中無人，只有自己的，很多人都如此

齊人攫金，

只是比看看誰比較不貪一點而已。

--

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 114.45.135.24 (臺灣)
※ 作者: lepputte 2023-06-07 22:21:42
※ 文章代碼(AID): #1aW99vZt (Gossiping)
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Gossiping/M.1686147705.A.8F7.html

作者 lepputte 的最新發文:

• +7 Re: [問卦] 中醫仔哪來的自信跟西醫戰 - Gossiping 板

  作者: lepputte 114.45.135.24 (台灣) 2023-06-07 22:21:42

  38F 8推 1噓
• +1 Re: [問卦] 偏激中醫廚有多可怕? - Gossiping 板

  作者: lepputte 61.224.115.244 (台灣) 2023-06-03 06:48:04

  13F 1推
• +7 [問卦] 機車怎麼走這麼機車 - Gossiping 板

  作者: lepputte 36.227.64.85 (台灣) 2023-04-23 02:50:54

  44F 9推 2噓
• +25 Re: [問卦] 為什麼中醫外科消失在現代？ - Gossiping 板

  作者: lepputte 36.227.74.172 (台灣) 2022-09-18 22:22:06

  這個其實是不知道中醫有兩支醫學發展， 一支是走 "黃帝內經" 這種內科系，發展成我們熟知的中醫體系 另一支也許是失傳的 "黃帝外經" ?? 所傳承的外科手術治療 …

  44F 25推
• +19 Re: [問卦] 中醫說肥胖是體內濕氣重有科學根據嗎 - Gossiping 板

  作者: lepputte 118.160.38.168 (台灣) 2021-11-14 07:56:36

  噓 DaiRiT: 脈象就是胡扯的，實證是要EBM，連證實的 27.240.232.171 11/13 16:38 → DaiRiT: 論文都沒有，不用說什麼看的出來把得出來 27.240.232.1 …

  60F 20推 1噓

點此顯示更多發文記錄